- Alex Winkler
- Colby Warshel (Not on)
- Tommy Salerno (Not on)
- Daniel Camozzo
- Lawrence Obioma
- Toby Dawson
🎉 Hello Insiders - Episode 31 is here! 🎧
Episode 31 of the Insider Trading Podcast explores the nuances of trading strategies, with a deep dive into Danny's biggest single win on a ticker this year. Discover how to balance risk and reward, delve into community questions, and prepare for a profitable Q3. This is an episode packed with actionable insights for traders at all levels.
0:00 🎉 Danny's Biggest Single Win on a Ticker All Year
1:21 📈 ICCT, JTAI, HKIT Stock Breakdown
25:25 ⏳ Is Holding Trades Longer Worth It?
31:29 ❓ Risk Reward or Win Rate? (Community Q's)
34:00 📊 Grid Trading, Martingale & Trade Scaling
45:17 🎯 Toby's Approach To Risk Reward vs Win Rate
46:35 ⚡ Slippage During Trading
53:08 🛑 By Stop Orders & Breakout Trading
56:05 📉 Equity Curves Based On Risk Tolerance
1:10:08 🏦 Removing Equity From Trading Account
1:15:27 📅 Trading In August, Gameplan for Q3 2023
Whether you're fine-tuning your strategies or looking for fresh perspectives on risk and reward, this episode is packed with insights that could be pivotal for your trading success. Dive in as we share tips, tricks, and in-depth analyses, all aimed at helping you navigate the market more effectively.
Thank you for your continuous support. As always, your questions, feedback, or reviews are invaluable to us. Feel free to reach out!
#Love from the insiders ❤️
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Alex Winkler: What's up, Danny? So I heard you had an amazing trade. What's up, guys? Yeah, it's been an interesting day.
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Danny Camozzo: Are we waiting on Colby? Or Tommy?
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Alexander Winkler: Potentially, I guess they'll drop in if they can make it, I hope they can make it. Last time Colby was at the beach, and but I think Tom should be should be making it. I don't know. We'll see.
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Alexander Winkler: but feel free to share your trade.
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Danny Camozzo: Yeah, let's take a look. So I'm up
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Danny Camozzo: 5,200 on. ICCT.
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Danny Camozzo: There we go. Which is great to see, because August has been
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Lawrence obioma: and they had a pulse.
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Danny Camozzo: Yeah, well, flat is flat, is not bad. A lot of people are having a really tough month.
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Lawrence obioma: and I'm trying to keep that in mind. But today definitely helps so I'm up 52 67 on Icc. T. Which is awesome.
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Danny Camozzo: I forget what I forget what day it was, but II think I had like just taken a loss or something. I was posting in the warrior chat, and someone was like, Is it time to size down? And I was like, No, definitely, not I just need to be more selective about what I'm trading.
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Danny Camozzo: because, like, I'm taking bigger losses than I have before. But
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Danny Camozzo: like I'm making 5 grand on this, I made I had a couple of good examples. There was
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Danny Camozzo: Jtai that popped up the other week that
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Danny Camozzo: I think it was last Monday. Right here
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Danny Camozzo: popped up, halted up long, long halt. It was halted for 31 min. resumed. Up here, 6, 40, from 4, 84, 70,
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Danny Camozzo: huge gap
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Danny Camozzo: dipped down, popped up a little bit. I took almost 3,000 shares here at 6 90, held full position into this halt, cause I was already down 3 grand on the day.
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Lawrence obioma: How did you know? You know that was a
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Lawrence obioma: like, how did you know to trade? That was that the because of the halt they initially the first halt?
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Danny Camozzo: Yeah, because
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Danny Camozzo: I mean it was. It was honestly because of the warrior scanners in the chat room. I have halt scanner. That just shows me things that are halted. But other people were calling it out that it had halted, and it was showing a big gap up. So I
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Danny Camozzo: I just took a look at it. And whenever something makes a big gap up like this like 2 things are gonna happen, one of 2 things are gonna happen. It's either going to have no strength and just give it all back and halt down
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Danny Camozzo: because people are taking profit, and that profit taking might cause panic selling into a halt down, and then it's just dead unless it halt, it resumes flat from that, and then kinda consolidates and moves higher, or that won't happen, and you have another big squeeze up
00:03:09.530 --> 00:03:11.499
Danny Camozzo: because you have
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Danny Camozzo: people who see that big gap up, and you see a little profit taking and shorts try to get in it, because it's a big gap up, and then they get absolutely blown out.
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Danny Camozzo: So it held. I took almost 3,000 shares. I hauled the whole position into this hall.
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Danny Camozzo: So I was on re I was. I was showing like 500 profit from
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Danny Camozzo: 6 90 to the halt level here at 708 into that halt.
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Danny Camozzo: and at 1 point it was showing like an 8 80 resumption and 5,000 unrealized for me on that if it had opened there. But it opened up here. I managed to get about 3,300 out of that. So somebody, the reason I'm going over this is somebody the other day had asked about like, is it time to size down? And I was like, definitely not I just need to be more selective about about what I'm trading, because on the right stuff, when I'm sized up.
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Lawrence obioma: that's instant 3 grand, I think, also is, it goes back to the idea that you know you are your equity chart, right? Like sometimes the market the market does control a little bit of it. But you need to be aware of like
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Lawrence obioma: when you know your your strengths are in playing sizing up, because if you, if you constantly just size up with the size, with the market like, especially I'm talking about like as a discretionary cause. I think you guys, individually as the equity chart. I don't think of the trade that you're taking, cause you are making the decision for all of that. So like, yeah, you you definitely
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Lawrence obioma: you definitely need to be more aware about it. And I can like, I said, I always know when people are scared. II completely
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Lawrence obioma: understand that sizing up is, yeah is a little thing in itself.
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Danny Camozzo: Yeah, absolutely. So what was I going to say?
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Lawrence obioma: Sorry to cut you go. I'm I'm not
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Danny Camozzo: just like
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Danny Camozzo: taking bigger size because I feel like it.
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Danny Camozzo: I'm doing it
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Danny Camozzo: hopefully on the right trades.
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Danny Camozzo: And then, especially when I get confirmation that I'm on the right stock or the right trades. I'm like, yeah, time to take more size.
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Danny Camozzo: So my biggest challenge every day is just being
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Danny Camozzo: careful about the stocks that I'm sizing on
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Danny Camozzo: before I get into Icc. T. I'll go into h kit, because I'm down 1,300 on it, and I was down 2,300 on it.
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Danny Camozzo: But it had this pretty much
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Danny Camozzo: nonsensical multiple hulks down this morning.
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Danny Camozzo: and it was in this halt down
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Danny Camozzo: where I was asking like. Is there any reason anyone sees that it would be halting down multiple times in a row, with no stop from 24 down to 16, and everyone's like no
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Danny Camozzo: so I was watching for this potential move to happen cause when, whenever you see something, and especially because H. Kit did exactly this the other week
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Danny Camozzo: before it had a massive squeeze.
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Danny Camozzo: right here
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Danny Camozzo: same exact thing happened. No reason for the halts down massive squeeze back up.
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Danny Camozzo: So that's exactly what I was watching for, and I missed this. I just wasn't watching the resumption. It opened up. So it it opened 1650, dipped, halted 1813 opened it
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Danny Camozzo: just under 21. Yeah, I missed this, too.
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Lawrence obioma: But I don't know about even back in the day. I've never actually, I love this because it's just pretty much psychology at this point. Oh, my God, that that's that's a baldy trade. I gotta say.
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Lawrence obioma: yeah, even with, I don't know I mean back in the because I remember the Ross even took a bunch of these traits like he he did well on them. I remember one train where he where he broke his rule, and he just kept adding and adding, as that's yeah, you really have to be careful. You have to be really careful and discipline on stuff like this, because
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Danny Camozzo: it can go the wrong way. Really, badly, really fast. Cause, you know, it's a $23 stock. What if I had gotten caught in this halt down, and I can't sell my even just 1,000 shares until I'm down at 16, you know.
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Danny Camozzo: So if you have to be really careful about this part of it.
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Danny Camozzo: What were you saying?
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Lawrence obioma: No, I was, gonna say that like, the good thing about holds is I'm doing I'm thinking of at some point doing like test on this is that
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Lawrence obioma: the the
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Lawrence obioma: potential for profit can always outweigh the loss, the potential losses, especially if you're doing only small caps because they percentage the percentage gains the idea of how percent yeah, 2 to $5 would be 100, and if it's gaps up that high, that's if you, if it drops, is only like 20, if you constantly take these whole trades and you're very accurate. You might actually always be in profit. I don't know. II need to see what that looks like, but.
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Danny Camozzo: I wish that there was a better way to tag my trades. I just take. Yeah, I could tag my trades. It's just difficult, like, even today, I have a low number of trades, which is like 30 or 40 or 50 or so. But
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Danny Camozzo: even then it's like it's hard to go back and tag them trades will take you an hour to properly, so you know I can't give you statistics on it, but halts. Trading halts is one of my best strategies easily.
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Alexander Winkler: I always look looked at that more than anything. Can you explain your
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Lawrence obioma: what did you mention there between them being profitable setup? Oh, so so when you go from $2 to $4.
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Lawrence obioma: Right? That's a hundred percent increase. So like, if so, I've seen stuff hold from 2 to 7, right? So if you take that if you take that trade percentage gain is always going to be more than if you drop 2, 2, 2, you know, 2 to one. So what I'm saying, the the structure of the stock market is that long or even markets in general, especially small caps like small caps.
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Lawrence obioma: is that the the price.
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Lawrence obioma: The potential of gain, especially with these squeezes, is always going to be more than the loss at at this price at this price levels. So that's a that's a another thing I you have to think of. Keep in mind.
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Lawrence obioma: If for anyone who trades like large caps, more caps, or as an outgo. When you get into these lower price stocks, you have to flip your whole mentality a little bit on how to trade them, because they don't. They? Price structure doesn't even move like last caps. It's a completely new.
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Lawrence obioma: Yeah.
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Lawrence obioma: the thing in general.
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Danny Camozzo: Yeah, II really like the way you phrase things, because it's everything that I know, but have never really verbalize before. So.
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Danny Camozzo: But so anyways, what you said is exactly why I took this trade. There's so much more upside potential, especially because you have this bottoming out that halted up hard gapped up hard, straight into the next halt. So there's a lot of shorts trapped here. And so I was looking for it to get back to this basically 0 on the day which you know could be a good red to green move that would squeeze higher. So it opened here.
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Danny Camozzo: I took shares. I got a fill at 2472. I just took 1,000 shares, which is
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Danny Camozzo: not a huge position for me at all.
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Danny Camozzo: with something. This much range that's a pretty normal starter.
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Danny Camozzo: It did pop up over 25. But I wasn't able to get any shares out. And I had to sell down at basically the bottom here. So I took a $2,300 loss on those 1,000 shares.
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Danny Camozzo: but, like just like we were saying, it was the right idea to take that trade cause. A few minutes later it squeezes up, and
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Danny Camozzo: at least. On this
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Danny Camozzo: I took a smaller position. I took 700, but I was able to go from down 2,300 on it to down just under 13. So I made a good chunk back at least.
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Lawrence obioma: but that's the first example. That was my first major trade of the day. I'll say like the another thing about this. And then another thing about that even is that, like Alex, we were saying that we wouldn't take that 15 like that straight from 15 to 20, but like one of those. And then that's a good example of like it went up to 25 like you held that. That's yeah. That's like 75 gain. The lowest it could have dropped at that point is probably like, maybe
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Lawrence obioma: at where it's $8 that's like I do. I don't even know if it be, that would be possible. So it's right. It's an idea of like I think II start to see a little bit. Why, these high
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Lawrence obioma: high big risk takers, you know, trade this, this halted stocks
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Danny Camozzo: huge potential.
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Danny Camozzo: so this was Icc. Ti initially was not interested in it because it was showing everywhere like a hundred 50 million. Float. But that's incorrect. It had a 33
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Danny Camozzo: ratio reverse split. So it's actually only about a 5 million float, which is right in what I like to trade. It halted up pretty much out of the open. I missed that, and then it was kind of choppy.
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Danny Camozzo: but what it did that I was really interested in is it never broke down, and it, double topped here at 3 20,
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Danny Camozzo: rejected off of that cooled down. Came back down to Vw. Under the emas.
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Danny Camozzo: So it's looking not great on the day down here. But you're gonna have some shorts in here that if it starts creeping back up over 3, especially, they might be under water.
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Danny Camozzo: and so you had a pretty nice ascending support trend line here.
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Danny Camozzo: and I was calling this out.
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Danny Camozzo: It looks like a wedge for one just a pretty normal wedge, but
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Danny Camozzo: it's also an ascending triangle, which is one of my favorite patterns.
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Danny Camozzo: Ascending trial triangle descending triangle. Typically they'll break the flat side. And that's exactly what happened here. When it
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Danny Camozzo: basically said. It's not breaking down. As soon as it started creeping back up here. I got in this candle pretty big size. I don't remember
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Danny Camozzo: actually, not really that big. I think it was like 2,000, 503,000, maybe, but that was a 40 cent candle so I went from down a thousand on the day after where I was on h Kit straight up to like down 200 on the day. Wow! And then
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Danny Camozzo: what was that?
00:14:31.309 --> 00:14:37.269
Lawrence obioma: I said? The upside potential for this time crazy because even you take social risk on that
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Lawrence obioma: and this, this goes back to that idea of the simulation that II sent you guys which we could talk about later.
00:14:46.680 --> 00:14:59.489
Lawrence obioma: figuring out upside where upside potential lies and where the crux of risk cause. The problem I found now that I'm noticing is that why are they so so disparate? Why are this such disparate?
00:15:00.019 --> 00:15:20.609
Lawrence obioma: high earning traders? And then trainers who've been training very consistently, but still only make a little bit very consistent, and it makes it. Just what I'm looking at is just risk is like both of them were just so fine with taking different qualities of risk that. But the other person who's taking less risk and more consistent doesn't even know that they could be taking
00:15:20.690 --> 00:15:36.219
Lawrence obioma: the other person's risk given by just a little bit and potentially doing it. It's a it's yeah. And I think we should definitely talk about your equity percentages. How you mapped that out to cause that's really interesting, and it goes along perfectly with
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Danny Camozzo: One of the things that I
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Danny Camozzo: understood.
00:15:40.750 --> 00:15:56.759
Danny Camozzo: probably for the first time in my career earlier this year was like exponential bet sizing which Lance Breitstock talks about a lot. And so I've really tried working on that this year, and so like, this is the first a plus setup I've seen in a long time.
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Danny Camozzo: It matches everything that I'd look for, including price action. It's failing to break down. It was soaking here, getting bought up. See? Squeeze! What I really liked at this point was that it squeezed. It didn't break through it. It actually did break and reject 3 50 at first, but it still
00:16:15.650 --> 00:16:24.259
Danny Camozzo: didn't even ever touch the 9 em a. Until this candle, where it launched 50 cents higher, and I was in this with bigger size, so I went from
00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:36.769
Danny Camozzo: up 300 on it to up a thousand on it in this, and then I went to up 2,000 on it in this candle, and then again it did the same thing. It was pretty extended at this point.
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Danny Camozzo: That was on the 5 min that was back here. So
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Danny Camozzo: it was only a
00:16:44.920 --> 00:16:47.769
Danny Camozzo: what was that? You market all that into those?
00:16:48.809 --> 00:17:05.578
Danny Camozzo: Yeah, mostly because I'm on Td, which is commission free. So I don't have like if I punched it for and even using dos if I punched it for by the ask, plus 2 cents, I'm gonna be pissed if that skips my order, so I would rather just
00:17:05.580 --> 00:17:20.480
Danny Camozzo: get my order filled. But most of the time I was buying when it would dip like this, because I was also recognizing, and at this point the spread still was opening up to like 10 or 12 cents, which, on a $4 stock is not that small?
00:17:20.690 --> 00:17:27.399
Danny Camozzo: So I was usually buying when it would dip, and that would get me a really nice entry to hang on to
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:30.499
Danny Camozzo: And then, so it made that nice move.
00:17:30.549 --> 00:17:44.969
Danny Camozzo: It was super extended on the 5 min here, because 9 Ema on 5 min was down at like 3, 40 60 cents lower. So at this point I was like made a nice gain on that. I'm solidly green on the day. Gonna give it a second.
00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:48.259
Danny Camozzo: Let it consolidate. See what it wants to do from there
00:17:48.360 --> 00:17:52.980
Danny Camozzo: it popped right back up a few minutes later.
00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:58.709
Danny Camozzo: I think that I got this candle. Actually, what I can do is
00:17:59.789 --> 00:18:09.269
Danny Camozzo: I love my Ds charts entry so much better.
00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:11.690
Danny Camozzo: So we can just look at exactly what I traded.
00:18:11.710 --> 00:18:25.788
Danny Camozzo: So I took that break really pretty much on a good entry there, kind of against the descending resistance line going across there
00:18:25.900 --> 00:18:40.919
Danny Camozzo: almost always. I'm just taking profit into these breaks if it holds up, I can add like here, but then I'll take profit on the break. And then it held here too. So I took profit, or, I added, took profit, bought the dip, took profit.
00:18:41.190 --> 00:18:53.700
Lawrence obioma: I just wanna say this looks like a high frequency. If you've looked at a high frequency order coming in. This is literally what it looks like by the dip. Sell the top by the dip, so sell the top as
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Danny Camozzo: well. But also one thing you'll notice is, I don't really take a starter like I'm gonna just take my position so that I can go out effectively. You're more like there are different ways. You can always structure your strategy. And we can go into that because I've I've actually been. You know, I'm working on a high frequency.
00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:21.519
Lawrence obioma: we're working on a high frequency thing right now. Well, I'm like, I always say we, but like there was always just me. But
00:19:21.580 --> 00:19:31.009
Lawrence obioma: but we are. I'm I'm thinking of, like, I'm thinking of doing stuff like this. And you know, the problem is is, you know, you get to see the tick data you get to see the older book.
00:19:31.210 --> 00:19:34.750
Lawrence obioma: Paying for all the book data and tick data is expensive.
00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:45.670
Lawrence obioma: I don't know how historically, I can get this data. But it's just it's interesting to see you doing because it's like, okay, so this is what I need to just copy
00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:47.610
Lawrence obioma: and figure out.
00:19:47.750 --> 00:19:52.640
Lawrence obioma: I think at some point I have to do like an interview with someone does this so that I can like.
00:19:52.840 --> 00:19:53.840
Danny Camozzo: Oh.
00:19:54.630 --> 00:20:06.528
Danny Camozzo: I Cct just got halted for news pending. Yeah, I'm still in my ebt exhall for almost 2 months now for a month and a half.
00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:31.740
Danny Camozzo: Well, let me let me quickly. Just recap the rest of it, and then we can move on. So I would love to know what you were doing around like 11, 5 and stuff. 1110. Right here. This is where this is where it started to really go parabolic. Max and I one of my one of my friends, Max, in the warrior chat. He he does awesome. He trades big size, but he was up like 23 grand on this today.
00:20:31.819 --> 00:20:37.318
Danny Camozzo: This is where it broke this level, and we both said.
00:20:37.660 --> 00:20:47.610
Danny Camozzo: like this pink bit, this pink line here is the upper view OP deviation. And we were like, you know, it's it's had a nice move so far, but it really hasn't gone parabolic yet.
00:20:47.840 --> 00:20:50.640
Danny Camozzo: I got this nice entry scaled out.
00:20:51.250 --> 00:21:04.210
Danny Camozzo: This is where it really started to go, and this is where I went from 2,000 to 3 to 4 to 5 in a matter of how are you scaling out on those? Are you
00:21:05.430 --> 00:21:12.559
Danny Camozzo: percentage. No, I am holding until I start to feel like it's heavy.
00:21:12.830 --> 00:21:17.980
Danny Camozzo: I don't pay attention to percentage or how many cents I'm up. I'm just
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:31.450
Danny Camozzo: watching the price action, and which is how I used to do it, too. But I'm trying to figure out how how much are you scaling out? But oh, oh, of my position. Yeah, I have hotkeys set up to sell. Third.
00:21:32.059 --> 00:21:36.080
Lawrence obioma: I thought, so 30. Okay, so like 30, 40, 35. Okay.
00:21:36.110 --> 00:21:37.600
Danny Camozzo: yeah.
00:21:38.430 --> 00:21:53.919
Danny Camozzo: So III had that at a quarter originally, but I found that that just got me out like really pretty slowly, and sometimes the move had kind of like retraced a little too much by the time I was getting most of my shares out. So
00:21:54.190 --> 00:22:16.889
Danny Camozzo: I'm scaling out probably this one at this level at a 5 at a whole dollar, was in order to sell just under the ask limit order. And then this stuff, when it's just popping and flying. I'll do a combination of if it's moving hard, I'll sell under the ask if it's kind of chopping around. I'll just take profit with a market
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:23.489
Danny Camozzo: but like it moved up here, sold, sold, sold, added for the 5 50 breaks sold through it.
00:22:23.900 --> 00:22:32.949
Danny Camozzo: got back over 5 50, held, sold through it. And then one of my major issues that I've been having
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:44.159
Danny Camozzo: mostly earlier in August was catching a move and then giving a lot of profit back. So what I'm really happy about on this one is
00:22:44.529 --> 00:22:47.860
Danny Camozzo: had a really nice trade here that was like another
00:22:47.870 --> 00:22:57.308
Danny Camozzo: 1,000. And then I was holding like just a hundred or 200 shares at this point, cause I was waiting like we still hadn't had a rejection yet.
00:22:57.610 --> 00:23:09.289
Danny Camozzo: and so we finally get a real rejection, and I sold the rest. Bought the dip just a little bit, sold small pop, and stopped trading it until
00:23:10.059 --> 00:23:21.568
Danny Camozzo: it started holding this trend line because it bottoms here. Pops up. Didn't trade that bottoms here. So now we have a trend to work with, and I took a few trades off that trend line
00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:27.600
Danny Camozzo: took a couple trades through this. and now we're T. 12 halted.
00:23:27.750 --> 00:23:28.450
Lawrence obioma: Aye.
00:23:28.890 --> 00:23:31.979
Danny Camozzo: 250% on the day.
00:23:32.059 --> 00:23:34.049
Danny Camozzo: so we'll see what the news is.
00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:37.879
Lawrence obioma: My God, I this, yeah, this is why you stop trading.
00:23:38.049 --> 00:23:42.940
Danny Camozzo: Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, actually, it's a
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:44.170
Danny Camozzo: so
00:23:44.190 --> 00:23:50.710
Danny Camozzo: it's not news pending it is the exchange requested
00:23:51.170 --> 00:23:56.309
Danny Camozzo: the company to respond to the price action on the stock. Basically.
00:23:57.029 --> 00:24:01.410
Danny Camozzo: So anyways, that's my recap on. Icc T.
00:24:01.590 --> 00:24:06.940
Danny Camozzo: Really nice to hit a really solid win. Finally,
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:22.660
Danny Camozzo: But again, it just goes along with like everything I've been working on, which is sizing up on the right stuff and just trying to be okay with it when I take some bigger losses than maybe I'm used to. But then, you know, on the right move. This happens, too.
00:24:23.769 --> 00:24:50.100
Alexander Winkler: It's really a different going into a different league. It's really nice, you know. It's like when you're when you're doing those like, you know, 50 to $200 days, and then you have your first 5 or 1,000 day, you know, and then like that, the new norm. And that's that's nice to see. Those numbers. Last year was a nightmare for me. I had trouble every day getting past like 100 200 on the day
00:24:50.400 --> 00:25:01.559
Danny Camozzo: and it was mostly just due to issues with sizing being that I was taking mostly the same size on everything, and not necessarily
00:25:01.940 --> 00:25:09.720
Danny Camozzo: the best setups and it was just a choppy market that I wasn't really reading that. Well,
00:25:10.210 --> 00:25:15.189
Danny Camozzo: so nice to be making some refinements to what I've been doing. Yeah.
00:25:15.309 --> 00:25:19.120
Lawrence obioma: everything looks. Everything looks really that you know how you're doing. I mean.
00:25:19.250 --> 00:25:25.630
Lawrence obioma: II don't ever anticipate. I don't anticipate myself doing anything that high frequency until
00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:35.509
Lawrence obioma: well, I pay for tick data so we we we still hold, for we hold, like even the hypocrisy thing that I'm working on right now. I think the average full time was like 5 min.
00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:40.029
Lawrence obioma: Maybe, but it can. It exits at like one to 2 to 3 min, too.
00:25:40.100 --> 00:25:47.239
Lawrence obioma: but doing stuff like that and don't get me wrong. Everything works right. I think the the cool thing about that is just
00:25:47.400 --> 00:26:04.459
Lawrence obioma: very capital efficient but I don't know how capital efficient it is. You're going in and out that frequently tools like, well, yeah, technically, you have capital. Well, the thing is like, yeah. Would have been awesome if I had held
00:26:04.840 --> 00:26:09.598
Danny Camozzo: a bigger position from down here, because it was a strong break on a high quality setup.
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:37.308
Danny Camozzo: and then taken profit up here when it really found resistance, and then done the same thing, but world in a perfect world and in the right market like 2020 summer 2020, sure. And yeah. And now that I think about it like, that's Nope, it's it's a good way to like
00:26:37.309 --> 00:26:41.959
Lawrence obioma: even though they are correlated, is a good way to reduce correlation or to
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:57.368
Lawrence obioma: play play. Yeah, we just correlation, because you'll each trade in the inside that that bigger trade is individual, and then they all do at the end of the day, you know, cause how many times have you traded something going up and still lost money bottom there and then.
00:26:57.410 --> 00:27:06.198
Danny Camozzo: Not that often anymore, luckily, but yeah, sure. Every now and then I'm read on something that went up hard and that sucks. But
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:14.538
Danny Camozzo: yeah, when you do that, when you're able to do that, it's 2 different things going on. You're you're holding basically an intra day swing while you're day trading it.
00:27:14.689 --> 00:27:29.680
Danny Camozzo: but like the thing is, when's the last time we saw something this high quality? So you have to be realistic and responsible at the same time, and be taking profit because this is not the norm. Right now.
00:27:30.629 --> 00:27:44.240
Danny Camozzo: If we start to see more of this happen, I'd be more confident to hold. But I was looking at my stats for specifically for August. My typical average hold, time and average.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:59.750
Danny Camozzo: both winning and losing trades is about 30 s. So oh, it's interesting. When you hover over this, it shows you the exact time. So average hold time on my winds on this one today. Specifically, we're a minute and 16 s
00:27:59.970 --> 00:28:06.919
Danny Camozzo: and average on average losers. Today, we're 13 s. So
00:28:08.009 --> 00:28:15.629
Danny Camozzo: with something that was showing me that it was having really good upward potential. I was holding it 5 times longer than
00:28:15.850 --> 00:28:20.419
Danny Camozzo: my losses. I'm yeah. I'm starting to see
00:28:20.710 --> 00:28:29.220
Lawrence obioma: what I'm missing. It's really is to take data because I can't. You can see in those 15 s why this thing might not work.
00:28:29.419 --> 00:28:47.250
Lawrence obioma: I can't really see that. And I don't have the all the book to even place any idea. And that's I mean, obviously, all like citadel is into all the books like they do, all of that us. The thing is, I don't know how to simulate that, but but it's good to know. I mean, it's not like I'm trying to be a high frequency firm.
00:28:47.310 --> 00:28:55.939
Danny Camozzo: But II would like you want to emulate what they're doing. It's like you want to emulate what the top is doing.
00:28:56.009 --> 00:29:00.009
Alexander Winkler: and you offer me is also you. Wanna I wanna be as as
00:29:00.250 --> 00:29:22.200
Lawrence obioma: as flexible as possible. All my strategy, because every strategy makes money differently like this strategy can't make up a lot of money. It it might have a liquidity issues down the road, but it can make a lot of money very consistently whereas you know some of these strategies that if you, if you have a swing track strategy you can enter. You can have, you know, 10 million dollar positions.
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:36.968
Lawrence obioma: and and be able to to still close them with, you know, slippage that wouldn't kill your, you know each trade. So it's it's really just flexibility that I'm thinking on and I really want to do more high frequency stuff because I see them. More consistency.
00:29:37.189 --> 00:29:43.678
Danny Camozzo: right? I'm trying to upload the rest of my
00:29:43.830 --> 00:29:49.240
Danny Camozzo: trades, cause II know I took some more trades on it after this upload
00:29:49.419 --> 00:30:04.859
Danny Camozzo: but the last thing I wanted to touch on is 73% accuracy trading this stock. And I know that that's how well I can do when something's moving right. And that is what I should be waiting to trade.
00:30:06.850 --> 00:30:12.739
Lawrence obioma: II don't know about waiting to trade, I think, taking more because your your
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:15.149
Lawrence obioma: your win rate
00:30:15.250 --> 00:30:26.040
Lawrence obioma: is always gonna change. So like someone said this in a podcast. Your win rate is also it's a and a chart. It goes from 0 to to 90.
00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:48.350
Lawrence obioma: And it can. It can really regulate over a period like you could have 5 trades that are 95 trades that are, you know, 30. And I think the idea is that you need to keep it as you need to keep it around that general average range. But yeah, you find days like this where you find something that is a 70, and that is when you should size up which you did. That's the form better. So that's how you need to think about it.
00:30:48.460 --> 00:30:55.848
Lawrence obioma: feel like I'm giving out all the ways to to make it out.
00:30:55.890 --> 00:31:11.430
Lawrence obioma: Listen and try to try to live with this, because II mean. That's how you should really think about it, even on a discretionary end. Like when you look your data, I think that's how you should think like, hey, this is what my data is actually telling me. I shouldn't just think this is special, because it's
00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:20.730
Alexander Winkler: yeah. My, my better days are also over 70. And then my bad days are like 30 or something. My average is around 67. Actually.
00:31:20.750 --> 00:31:31.379
Alexander Winkler: there's a really good question. We had last podcast and exactly similar. Let me share my screen quickly.
00:31:31.399 --> 00:31:38.000
Alexander Winkler: and so everyone could give their feedback here. I already gave a little bit of an answer. But
00:31:38.069 --> 00:31:51.490
Alexander Winkler: this person guns. Emperor. I'm not even sure legit hit. There we go. They're they're wondering, why is there a lot of PE profitable traders here on Youtube that use one to one risk reward, despite the typical saying
00:31:51.490 --> 00:32:11.979
Alexander Winkler: that you should at least have one to 2, one to 3 restored. I now have a I'm not having a dilemma whether to stick to my one, to 3, or switch to one to one knowing my win rate would increase, and also I'll be more profitable daily on the latter. No, this is something we talk about all the time. I really kind of hinted at this a little bit, and the answer, I said, A higher our our
00:32:12.069 --> 00:32:29.549
Alexander Winkler: risk reward is often the goal, and it's better to start to improve your win rate. It's a. It's a better stat to improve than your win rate. Danny, for example, has the best risk reward, and he's also the most profitable on the pod, and I have a lower risk reward. I'm more close to like one to one
00:32:29.549 --> 00:32:58.339
Alexander Winkler: but I have much higher wind rate than Danny. I think I'm on average a little bit higher, because you said you were getting close to like sometimes even 50 on a lot of days. But yeah, that's what you're telling me. So. So I was basically just saying getting profitable. First, any means possible is probably step number one and then improving from there step number 2, which typically means improve your risk, ward over improving your wind rate because a win rate really doesn't mean anything like
00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:22.069
Lawrence obioma: if you know, everyone's green for a second on a trade often. What are you gonna do? Are you just gonna quickly close it to improve your win rate? That doesn't really make much sense. You want to hold your winners longer and cut your losers quicker. So you want to focus on the R to R. Well, II can. I can talk on this because I have strategies that do everything right. I have strategies that have a 80 win rate, and I have strategies to have a 50 win rate.
00:33:22.549 --> 00:33:28.149
Lawrence obioma: let me. So it's very interesting. And this is why I always still go with that. Everything works
00:33:28.649 --> 00:33:38.049
Lawrence obioma: So I've been looking into this thing called grid trading. I don't know if you guys have heard of it right? I think, Alex, we talked about the whole martingale style training
00:33:38.109 --> 00:34:00.299
Lawrence obioma: where you know you double the risk. But that's not what I'm talking about. This is more a more systematic way. By the way grid trading has been around since the stock market has been around. It's just something. Yeah. Grid trading. You can look it up and maybe pull up an image of like what a chart would look like. But essentially the idea is that you have different grids, different points of the of the chart where you keep adding
00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:09.299
Lawrence obioma: positions until the chart reverts back, and then you, you take a profit and when it reverts back to like either an
00:34:09.509 --> 00:34:25.230
Lawrence obioma: average. Actually, there's a lot of ways to do great trade. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm not gonna get into it because there's so many different ways you can. You can do the idea. But the idea is that you're adding and adding or or putting trade that multiple grades to end up with a profit when Price reverts back at some point.
00:34:25.230 --> 00:34:42.178
Lawrence obioma: Right? It depends. You can play with it right? There's a guy on Youtube. You can look him up. His name is I think it's let me let me look up. Give me 1 Si guess I have him here.
00:34:42.649 --> 00:34:45.500
Lawrence obioma: yeah.
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:47.288
Lawrence obioma: His name is Ryan Brown.
00:34:47.710 --> 00:35:01.259
Lawrence obioma: Ryan Brown. He does great trading on Youtube. He does. He's doing it for the last. He's in it. He's been 8 years. He's been trading for 8 years. I think he's last 3 years. 4 years he's been profit, but he has multiple, great training strategies.
00:35:01.460 --> 00:35:04.278
Lawrence obioma: you can pull it up if you want to see
00:35:04.309 --> 00:35:11.538
Lawrence obioma: if you wanna see kind of what that looks like. So it's the it's it kind of looks like this. He's not actually
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:22.409
Lawrence obioma: buying 2, lots, 4 lots. He's strategies are a little bit more intricate. But the reason why I bring this up is that this has a 90 something win rate. Actually, if you look at the equity chart, it's just a straight line.
00:35:22.569 --> 00:35:25.408
Lawrence obioma: So you had exponential sizing on the way down.
00:35:25.589 --> 00:35:49.059
Lawrence obioma: Well, it's not necessarily exponential, because some Tracy just goes with app like when it depends, you can structure it right. Remember, you have to. You can play with how you want to do it. Sometimes he does the same like size, 1, one lock, one lot, and then 2 lot here like in double it after 3 3 trades whatever. But the idea is that this is what it looked. You can look like right. This is martingale, but it it also can look like this degree. But
00:35:49.109 --> 00:35:54.168
Lawrence obioma: the the idea for that is that you're taking very small profits, right? But you're keeping
00:35:54.329 --> 00:36:08.279
Lawrence obioma: a high win rate, and that is just the structure of everything, no matter how you do it, whether you do it, retraining whatever you do along you do it in a different way, like I do where you're getting 80 win rate because you're just trying to take small profits at a time.
00:36:08.379 --> 00:36:19.769
Lawrence obioma: It! It's I. Don't. You said you like you just said. Is it better to improve? It's better to improve your Rr. Versus your way? Right? I don't know if that's true, because
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:30.539
Lawrence obioma: either one will give you a new structure, a new chart structure, right? The 100% win rate 95% winner. It gives you a straight line. It gives you closer to what Danny has right?
00:36:30.759 --> 00:36:35.118
Lawrence obioma: Versus if you're having, if you're doing you know
00:36:35.169 --> 00:36:44.218
Lawrence obioma: 1, 2 one to 3 brief, you're gonna have a very either, maybe depending on where your stop is. You can have a a wobbly chart or
00:36:44.599 --> 00:37:13.759
Lawrence obioma: or, I mean depends on what you're trading if you're training, and it also depends on instrument. You're trading. So if you're training something that trends really well, yeah, that one to 3 might work. If you wanna timeframe, that is very noisy, like the 1 min timeframe and you're trading just mean reversion. Then actually, a great trading might work because you're just going back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and then, you know, over, I guess, over a certain period of time you might have a huge drawdown like he. He had a 15 drawdown, 70% drawdown, but it takes him like 2, 3 months to recover that, and which is a lot, but
00:37:13.869 --> 00:37:19.208
Lawrence obioma: you have to understand he's making money every single day. and he has an account where he
00:37:19.399 --> 00:37:32.549
Lawrence obioma: he does great trading like a thousand dollar account, where he does great trading, and it's just a straight line up, and he's doing that just to just essentially make as much profit off of that account, and then he'll take out the profits and
00:37:32.579 --> 00:37:35.349
Lawrence obioma: He'll take out the profits and just let the account run with
00:37:35.399 --> 00:37:52.439
Lawrence obioma: with, with however much money left. Essentially at that point. He's just. He's just having a simulator play with money and just make recreate as much money as this one. So I think the the and then there's also another guy with Youtube who did like a martingale thing where he did a thousand bots, a thousand bots that did martingale strategy, and couple of them
00:37:52.569 --> 00:37:55.869
Lawrence obioma: finished and didn't blow up, and they made 21 million
00:37:56.059 --> 00:38:01.989
Lawrence obioma: over a certain amount of traits. So if you really think about it right, the idea is that risk
00:38:02.569 --> 00:38:03.429
Lawrence obioma: risk?
00:38:03.449 --> 00:38:25.548
Lawrence obioma: We we induce a sense of risk that we can't lose everything like we wanna keep everything as much as possible. So we know we do. We do that one to 3 strategy or something that doesn't have a high win rate, because, you know, there's a huge chance of it just losing everything because the structure of high win rate strategies is that they lose like Mo, for example, Matt, as he has a 90 win rate.
00:38:25.549 --> 00:38:43.279
Lawrence obioma: it's funny, cause I do actually watch him trade. He actually puts lines just like a grid trading. He actually, I've watched him trade. It's is them near grid trading, but in a discretional sense, and it actually makes sense. Because if you look at his equity chart, it looks like a great trading equity chart. So the idea, the idea of
00:38:43.299 --> 00:38:46.818
Lawrence obioma: the answer to that question is that it doesn't matter.
00:38:46.879 --> 00:39:09.538
Lawrence obioma: It matters, or what structure of a chart that you want. If you want something that's a little bit more fluid. Yeah, maybe get with, get a one to 2 to 3, you know, because those big wins are gonna offset your time when you're flat, and then you cause I could show you my our new breakdown strategy, which is a trend trading strategy. It literally is flat, bump, flat, bump, cause it's just waiting for trends.
00:39:09.539 --> 00:39:20.489
Lawrence obioma: because every other movement doesn't really give it enough money to to fight, to make a movement on the chart. So so, yeah, I guess that's that's the answer. It's really depends on what you feel comfortable with the
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:21.689
Lawrence obioma: the.
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:26.268
Lawrence obioma: The best way to do that is to have us a portfolio of all of those
00:39:26.419 --> 00:39:28.859
Lawrence obioma: you wanna and I'll be honest.
00:39:29.359 --> 00:39:57.778
Lawrence obioma: We we like to say, like, for example, we like to say, like Danny has his own strategy of trading. But really Danny is incorporating multiple strategies while he's trading it right. He's buying the dips of stuff that is, that has just gone up a hundred. He's also buying breakouts. If it's going up like he's incorporating different ideas to create a smoother equity curve. That's why it's very hard for me to when you say you know, it's very hard to tag your stuff is because you are essentially more i
00:39:58.169 --> 00:39:59.449
Lawrence obioma: you essentially
00:40:00.689 --> 00:40:23.289
Lawrence obioma: creating and and just regurgitating different ideas that you've had in real time. So you don't even know what quote unquote strategy is. But you know when you buy that breakout. You know what you're doing, because you know what this type of situation is gonna involve versus when you buy that dip on the stock. They just went up 100. You know what you know that looks like, especially if it's just like milking the range.
00:40:23.449 --> 00:40:28.608
Lawrence obioma: so yeah, it's it's it's a different way to think about it. I don't think it's always as linear as saying
00:40:28.989 --> 00:40:34.960
Lawrence obioma: one way would work better than the other, because, like, I said, that Guy has been doing great training.
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:42.669
Lawrence obioma: He makes money almost every single month, actually, every single day he doesn't lose. He like has a 90, and you can see his equity charts.
00:40:42.759 --> 00:40:45.069
Lawrence obioma: It's pretty good, and he's never had a blown up account.
00:40:46.569 --> 00:41:12.699
Alexander Winkler: Everyone's gonna have to find it for themselves. To me it was more important at first, getting a higher win rate. So cause that was building confidence. But I think right now, if I wanna take my equity curve to the next level. I need to actually focus on my risk reward as opposed to my win rate. But that's also every trading style is gonna be different. I think these volatile small caps on the 1 min.
00:41:12.809 --> 00:41:21.529
Alexander Winkler: You know, you could put yourself in some really big holes. I think if you're doing grid trading like averaging down into a loser consistently is.
00:41:21.539 --> 00:41:33.239
Lawrence obioma: I think, a recipe, for it's not consistently keep. So that's why I'm saying the accounts are actually limited, based off like he has a draw, a stop loss based off percentage of the accounts.
00:41:33.460 --> 00:41:44.489
Lawrence obioma: So it's he's not. He's not just. He's not just creating a straight line like he. He does have losses on the account. It let me explain. So it's essentially the same thing as my equity charge that I showed you guys
00:41:44.500 --> 00:42:08.638
Lawrence obioma: all those drawdowns like when I when you see that one drawdown, he just has one of those he doesn't have like multiple drawdowns. He just has one or 2, but they they account to like he. I think he says he put a puts a limit of 15 on each account. So like, if he loses that much, you will stop it and start a new, a new trading sequence. So so it's never. So there's no like II have this issue with people whenever they think, oh, you can lose all your money
00:42:08.639 --> 00:42:33.128
Lawrence obioma: because it's like, let's be honest with ourselves. When are you ever gonna put yourself in a situation to lose all the money? Even you know that at that point your account stop something from happening is creating risk parameters that make sense for you, because I don't think and like, I say, great rating is not something you can do. Discretionary, really well, I think it's better to opt to automate it. Because I think emotions can get into play, especially view, like, I really want this to work.
00:42:33.129 --> 00:42:44.278
Lawrence obioma: Let me just add another doubled, you know, at the bottom. That's not. I think that's where humans fall. But I think you know, this guy has one of his strategies. He's he has 24,000 trades
00:42:44.299 --> 00:42:57.888
Lawrence obioma: on one on the EU Forex forex pairs, by the way, are very mean reverting. They go up and down. So it works really well for him. And so III think, yes, humans, fluidity works better
00:42:58.219 --> 00:43:02.799
Lawrence obioma: computers. You can do whatever you want. It's it's not really a
00:43:03.319 --> 00:43:10.688
Lawrence obioma: I thought so. Yeah, maybe the what is better is for humans. But I don't know something. II don't know how you feel about like
00:43:11.049 --> 00:43:16.169
Lawrence obioma: like, for example, if if you have to wait every time for a 2 to one
00:43:17.589 --> 00:43:20.548
Lawrence obioma: on a like a large cap, II don't know.
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:24.730
Lawrence obioma: I don't know if I would. I could wait for that, and still stomach like staying in the trade.
00:43:25.129 --> 00:43:46.980
Alexander Winkler: because I know, Alex, you were doing that for a little bit right? Yeah. I know when I hold too long on. If it's a large cap or a small caps, they it tends to go South really quickly. I mean, when I when I first started trading small caps, I'd be up so many times like 5, and then I'd close for a loss, and you do that a couple of times in a row, and you're you're about. Throw your laptop out the window, so I feel like with
00:43:46.980 --> 00:43:58.599
Alexander Winkler: with small cast, specifically doing exactly what Danny was doing. Taking those basics, you know. It pops up. Take that 3% off the table Re, buy. And you're just constantly doing that, because otherwise.
00:43:58.609 --> 00:44:10.068
Alexander Winkler: you know, in hindsight it's so easy to look at. Icc T, and be like, Yeah, I should have just held. I would have been up, you know, on 31 trade or 101 trade, if I just, you know, 30 min held it. But like
00:44:10.489 --> 00:44:21.759
Lawrence obioma: there's another 20 stocks that you're just gonna bleach. That's the problem with every strategy you have to structure it to just make sense, for, like we all
00:44:21.759 --> 00:44:43.689
Lawrence obioma: your your risk reward ratio like II don't. You can't even do some of these strategies like the grid trading. You can't really do it in a trending market because it might never revert. And you might just keep having choose drawdowns. That's why you have to do all your back tests, and just make sure you have your like. For example, I have strategies that that I test on one market. It doesn't even do the same thing at all in the other market.
00:44:43.730 --> 00:44:50.958
Lawrence obioma: I have to know. Okay, well, this market is just not for it. Trying to trying to create something that works on everything is damn near impossible.
00:44:51.009 --> 00:45:06.359
Lawrence obioma: Especially if you're going to like small cap and then lost cap. I mean, you might as well just try to speak Chinese and Malay and French at the same time, you know. Try to the same thing. It's not gonna work.
00:45:06.699 --> 00:45:16.019
Alexander Winkler: Toby. Do you have any thoughts on risk reward, or win rate in terms of where you are are at in your training career, and what works better.
00:45:17.319 --> 00:45:29.558
Toby Dawson: II don't focus too much on the reward part. I really focus on the risk. II think that I probably tried more similar to like Danny, or
00:45:29.649 --> 00:45:35.000
Toby Dawson: if it's going against you, my my stop loss is pretty much as tight as I can make it.
00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:36.528
Danny Camozzo: Yeah, and
00:45:36.769 --> 00:45:49.319
Toby Dawson: let it run as long as I can, and so I'm trying. If it. If he goes against me, even a penny, I'll get out, because I know I can get right back in on tos. So I'm gonna make that 200 trades in a day. It's no problem.
00:45:49.409 --> 00:46:04.539
Toby Dawson: And that's kind of part of my strategy is I'm gonna get in and out as many times as I want. Maybe I stab too many times, and you know that's where I get on a slippery slope of over trading a little bit during a day, but I want to get in and out as many times as I want to try to
00:46:04.619 --> 00:46:15.789
Toby Dawson: position myself to the place I want to be in to take that trade, and if it goes against me 2 or 3 cents, that's no problem. I'm out of the trade, and then I want to hop right back in if it drops another 6 cents
00:46:15.869 --> 00:46:24.688
Toby Dawson: and try to hold that position. If it's if that's where I want to be, or I think that's where I should be for the for the re the reward side of that trade.
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:53.448
Lawrence obioma: So, Toby, how do you deal with like slippage in that? Because it's like, if you're constantly. I'm just asking this because I'm it's one of the things that we have like. If you're constantly exit exiting trades right at the lows if they are not lows, but like wherever you think you should stop. Because it's coming back to you and use. Do you have to sell at the bid, do you? Is that? Does that like eat into your trades? If you do that a lot because I've seen, I think you took like one time like over 100 something trades a day and
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:59.519
Toby Dawson: and II was just thinking, oh, did slippage kill him or not, or I can. I can take, you know.
00:47:00.049 --> 00:47:14.288
Toby Dawson: 300 trades in a day, not even on common. So yeah, if I took a hundred 50 trades. That's kind of a low trading day for me, actually. But
00:47:14.319 --> 00:47:23.659
Toby Dawson: I don't. I don't know. I don't know about other brokers, but what tos I for the size that I trade. I don't find a big problem with slippage
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:25.279
Toby Dawson: and but
00:47:25.710 --> 00:47:35.418
Toby Dawson: like I try not to trade like H. Kit, or whatever Danny was trading where it was pretty low volume. I was probably pretty spready, too.
00:47:35.449 --> 00:47:51.389
Toby Dawson: So I don't trade those kind of stocks too often, so I don't get caught with, you know. If I have a 1,500 shares, I don't get caught with slippage trying to get get rid of my position. I'm usually able to get it, get rid of it within one or 2 cents of where I'm trying to get rid of it.
00:47:51.879 --> 00:48:00.048
Lawrence obioma: I'm curious to see, because I'm dealing with. Like II have to account for the business any at all completely, because I don't know what the audit book looks like.
00:48:00.359 --> 00:48:03.919
Lawrence obioma: I'm curious to see like throughout all your trades. Right?
00:48:03.929 --> 00:48:06.449
Lawrence obioma: Would you have done better if
00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:13.919
Lawrence obioma: like, because you're taking so many trades? The Transaction Co. That if you buy the ass and sell it. The bid buy the Rsll of the bid
00:48:13.939 --> 00:48:24.608
Lawrence obioma: does that in into your profits. Is that like $10 here, $10 here. $10 here, $10 here. Cause. That's why I found, because I literally I think we we changed the slippage from like one cent
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:31.819
Lawrence obioma: and le like one cents on the this is market until buy and sell. So it's like 2
00:48:31.829 --> 00:48:58.189
Lawrence obioma: 2 slippages. So it it went from being profitable 7 grand without slippage to being negative $8,000. When you just add one cents slippage on on a $20 stock. This was an apple back in 2015. So is this. So is is. And I mean, this is something that you see in a lot of other people. You add that one or 2 cents or slippage, and it can completely in into your profit over a period of time, especially if you're taking a lot of rates.
00:48:58.210 --> 00:49:02.489
Toby Dawson: It's kind of one of those weird chairs characteristics of having a free broker like
00:49:02.500 --> 00:49:03.728
Alexander Winkler: I'll get.
00:49:03.939 --> 00:49:10.358
Toby Dawson: Honestly, I'll sometimes enter a trade and get a wave way. Better position than I should have had.
00:49:10.509 --> 00:49:34.159
Lawrence obioma: I have to account for, no matter what. So maybe that is, maybe in the because of the back test I have to account for it, that in the live cause that's why I say I don't know what the all the books look like. I don't know when I'm taking that trade. If the ask is here.
00:49:34.179 --> 00:49:36.460
Lawrence obioma: or if it's really closed. Yeah.
00:49:36.529 --> 00:49:42.879
Lawrence obioma: yeah, I just have to make sense. And you know, like, if if I'm trading something, and you know the
00:49:42.980 --> 00:49:44.248
Toby Dawson: the ass drops.
00:49:44.529 --> 00:49:55.168
Toby Dawson: the bids drop down, you know, like 15 months. Then I have to, you know, have to make a hard decision. Do I want to dump all my shares at that point, or do I wanna try to hold it and let it climb back up a little bit, but
00:49:55.399 --> 00:50:05.978
Toby Dawson: honestly, with toos like, because they kind of match up orders. You don't run into a ton of slip, but I mean, that's my my case, because I don't usually trade more than you know
00:50:06.289 --> 00:50:08.278
Toby Dawson: 3,000 shares at a time.
00:50:09.629 --> 00:50:20.548
Danny Camozzo: I'm starting now to run into issues with a little bit of slippage when I send an order for, like 3,000 or more shares, it depends on the stock. It depends on the volume. But
00:50:20.909 --> 00:50:30.799
Danny Camozzo: If I'm trying to send an order that Big 3, 4, 5,000 shares. It needs to have the volume to support it, and I'm starting to find it'll fill my order, and like
00:50:30.949 --> 00:50:36.408
Danny Camozzo: 5 or 10 chunks around the price, which is usually fine.
00:50:36.549 --> 00:50:45.859
Danny Camozzo: But I am conscious of that, depending on the volume, on the stocks that I'm trading and how much I can take in in one
00:50:46.299 --> 00:50:47.239
Danny Camozzo: order.
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:49.848
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I can. I can that like
00:50:49.899 --> 00:51:01.769
Lawrence obioma: I can account for volume. But like I remember one trade we had a day where II this person, exit. I guess someone must have exited right before my trade, and he he brought the stock down.
00:51:01.869 --> 00:51:12.029
Lawrence obioma: He he sold like a he still like a $25,000 share position on Exxon exxon mobil. He brought it down like 15 cents
00:51:12.089 --> 00:51:22.059
Lawrence obioma: that second in 1 s, and I had to. II and II sold after him. I saw the slippage and all thing I was like, wait! How does that? How do you get 20 cents slippage? So I had to go through
00:51:22.219 --> 00:51:49.918
Lawrence obioma: to figure out what happened? Because II guess that was not necessarily slippage. That's just delayed order, but even then he off he! He! He can. He can mess up the order book, because now they're not gonna be as many orders down there. Because I think you know the high frequency firms. They they don't. They try to deal with those situations differently. That's why. Sometimes, if you look at if you look at this last gap, sometimes you see that the the order book dries out which is weird because they're not. They're supposed to fulfill these orders, but they're, you know, they're accounting for it in their
00:51:50.210 --> 00:51:53.978
Lawrence obioma: their strategies. But yeah, slippage is a thing in itself. II feel like
00:51:54.089 --> 00:52:09.618
Lawrence obioma: I don't know, because I've randomized my slippage to see what it looks like. And yeah, it looks pretty, but not as good as if there was no slippage. So that's I'm curious on what you guys look like. Because, yes, you say, okay, I get the good orders sometimes. But what about the times that you get the bad orders like if I randomize, that is, that
00:52:09.899 --> 00:52:27.918
Alexander Winkler: is that actually like the hot key where you just buy that I don't know by the by, the bid. And then it just has. So happens the bid popped up that 1 s before it drops.
00:52:28.029 --> 00:52:58.038
Danny Camozzo: No, it's technically not slippage. Yeah, you just. It's just the voltile order book. And then if it's if the ladder is like this, and sometimes you punch it. if I start to notice that that might be happening, though, and that actually was happening a little bit on Icc T. Today, was the bid would pop up, and then it would pop back down 10 cents, and if you had put your order to buy the bid at the wrong timing, you get kind of screwed. So instead of doing that, I would just put my order out to buy where I wanted to.
00:52:58.149 --> 00:53:01.528
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, you guys don't use any by stop orders.
00:53:01.699 --> 00:53:05.908
Danny Camozzo: No by stop orders like dips below. Gets you in?
00:53:07.109 --> 00:53:11.788
Lawrence obioma: No, no, no, that by limit. Orders, I'm saying. By stop orders, triggers, triggers.
00:53:11.949 --> 00:53:14.329
Lawrence obioma: It triggers a market order when it breaks out.
00:53:14.829 --> 00:53:22.429
Toby Dawson: Oh, no, definitely, not when it breaks out. No like if, like, I put a price
00:53:22.839 --> 00:53:23.529
Lawrence obioma: up.
00:53:23.839 --> 00:53:25.798
Toby Dawson: I haven't done it yet, but I've been
00:53:25.909 --> 00:53:29.089
Lawrence obioma: yeah, you know what. So the only
00:53:29.279 --> 00:53:40.869
Lawrence obioma: so I'll I'll break out strategy right? Our trending strategy does not work well if I use a limit order. because when the price comes down, every like over a long period of trades, when price comes down.
00:53:41.139 --> 00:53:42.730
Lawrence obioma: it's already coming down.
00:53:42.809 --> 00:53:48.208
Lawrence obioma: like, even if it just needs to touch it by one cent. It's already for some reason coming down, but when it keeps breaking out.
00:53:48.319 --> 00:53:56.938
Lawrence obioma: and I think the reason for that is because you can't really time when stock is always going to come back down. And you know, to a price where you want to buy it.
00:53:56.960 --> 00:54:26.878
Lawrence obioma: So. So I have to use by stop orders for those for it to work really? Well, so that's why I was curious what you guys do. Because you you I mean it kind of makes sense, though, because you guys, market order into your strategies, right? So into your trade. So market order is pretty much what I do with the buy stop orders. So you're just triggering it versus having to put something up there just to like, okay, if it breaks 320. It's I just want you to get in, no matter what like. So the thing for me is, that's kind of the opposite of my strategy.
00:54:26.909 --> 00:54:36.929
Danny Camozzo: because, especially in this market, we see too many false breakouts for me to feel like that makes sense for me. So
00:54:37.019 --> 00:54:41.768
Danny Camozzo: I'll buy the dip, and I'll sell into that break, and if it holds that break, then I'll get back in
00:54:42.779 --> 00:54:56.730
Lawrence obioma: Gotcha. Well, I guess I guess another thing is that we do trade on a higher timeframe. So maybe that's another reason, because in that quick dip, and then just so, you're the reason it keeps coming back down after
00:54:56.779 --> 00:55:18.439
Alexander Winkler: it's really the market we're in. II like. I totally agree with Danny, like there's times where, if it breaks out, I'll buy more often that will be turned into like my bread and butter, like the meat of my strategy. But right now, if there's a pop, and I buy into it more times than not. I'll be read right away. And I close for a red trade like, I need to be sizing before the breakout usually right now.
00:55:18.439 --> 00:55:31.539
Danny Camozzo: yeah, yeah, yeah. It depends on the market, I think. Like 2020, yeah. Sure. Cause, odds greatly are in favor of that pop holding and then going higher.
00:55:31.539 --> 00:55:34.879
Danny Camozzo: But right now it's just not the case. So
00:55:36.099 --> 00:55:40.108
Lawrence obioma: yeah, II completely agree, I think, do you? Wanna
00:55:40.369 --> 00:56:08.688
Lawrence obioma: Alex, you wanna go through to the simulation
00:56:08.730 --> 00:56:23.038
Lawrence obioma: how I've internalized my trading at this point, but happened consciously, like verbalize. No, I completely agree. You know. I think one of the reasons I did went to all those stuff was also because I hate that I had ideas, and I couldn't
00:56:23.439 --> 00:56:39.268
Lawrence obioma: like I couldn't test it. I couldn't know what it would actually look like. Now, now, I can literally test anything like it's not even a it's just a question of, do I? Kind of code, you know, Code, the situation. But the the fun thing is, I didn't have to code this. This was Chatty. Bt, I just asked. It
00:56:39.469 --> 00:56:46.250
Danny Camozzo: is absolutely amazing. That's super cool. No, I tell you I use it. Well.
00:56:46.279 --> 00:56:51.739
Danny Camozzo: how much stock do you put in the complete accuracy of this, then?
00:56:51.809 --> 00:57:12.978
Lawrence obioma: Oh, no, it's it's not II could. I could run the simulation. I've already run it on my, I already ran the the test. I just wanted to. I just wanted the idea. It said the idea. And then I ran it. Yeah. So II ran it with my strategy. Live I strategy. That's already. So I'll explain to you the the foundings of that and what we're doing for the next month
00:57:12.980 --> 00:57:23.348
Lawrence obioma: we're launching in the next. I think 2 weeks, probably once I get the infrastructure. I'm interested here, too, like, after we talk about this, I'm interested to hear about
00:57:23.429 --> 00:57:25.549
Danny Camozzo: like. At what point do you start
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:49.099
Lawrence obioma: telling your algas to take bigger size as you're finding consistent results. So so yeah, if you can go back to the, to the images, we can go through. Some of the ideas for it. So if you look at so, this is the first 20 k, so this is the first idea I was on. I was just thinking, because I'm I'm signing. I'm about to size up or I'm about to size in, because I just created a new strategy right? And I wanted to look at the
00:57:49.129 --> 00:57:59.408
Lawrence obioma: actually look at the 20 cable version. And I was I was at first I was just thinking, what does it? If is it better for me to tell my strategy? Hey? This is your new account balance.
00:57:59.489 --> 00:58:02.259
Lawrence obioma: or should I just increase the risk on the strategy?
00:58:02.289 --> 00:58:16.649
Lawrence obioma: The thing is generally when you increase the risk on a strategy. Right? What happens is it actually distorts the strategy because it's using a certain, a new amount of the equity curve. Essentially what it can do is it can make it most deep, most deep, right?
00:58:16.969 --> 00:58:21.739
Lawrence obioma: And it makes. That's the exponential sizing thing that
00:58:21.899 --> 00:58:33.699
Lawrence obioma: especially exponential by bet sizing that last branch that is talking about. When you bet more before your account percentage wise, you actually increase the steepness of your equity curve, and you can see that down there.
00:58:33.710 --> 00:58:41.619
Lawrence obioma: But when curiosity was like, when does that happen that I actually beat the account that II have.
00:58:41.730 --> 00:58:46.789
Lawrence obioma: And so I just wanted to see a simulation of a 60% win rate trade, you know, basic idea.
00:58:46.909 --> 00:58:58.088
Lawrence obioma: and to see when when will it actually catch up. And I was like 400 trades in in, you know, in the first 20 K. If you're using a 20 K with just 1.5 and 30 K with one. And I was like.
00:58:58.250 --> 00:59:06.069
Lawrence obioma: Oh, it it catches up pretty quickly. Yeah. Catches up pretty quickly. And I test. Let me tell you I tested this on one strategy.
00:59:06.369 --> 00:59:11.929
Lawrence obioma: I tested this almost strategy, and I did this with, well, let's talk about the 2 K. First, so that 2 K,
00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:31.649
Lawrence obioma: I wanted to see. Okay, what is it? If 3, I mean 3. Is not that much? It's like 60 bucks per trade at that 2 K level, and it goes like mad. So it is like, you're comparing 3 to 1.5, which doesn't sell mic much, but it's double the position. But the thing is that
00:59:31.889 --> 00:59:36.519
Lawrence obioma: you would not understand how exponential it increases
00:59:36.569 --> 00:59:50.638
Lawrence obioma: comparative to the other account. Yeah, it's the square of the of the equity. Right? Yeah, the equity. So the risk. Sorry the square of the risk. So.
00:59:50.789 --> 01:00:18.068
Lawrence obioma: and the idea was that I obviously we always have these thoughts, but we never put it on on the chart, and I wanted to like, see what it would look like on the chart. It's funny cause I could have just done this on myself. But I was talking to Chat Gp, one day. I was just like, Okay, well, let's try some ideas. I have a talking thing. I have a talk to chat that I do. So II can literally just talk.
01:00:18.099 --> 01:00:29.068
Lawrence obioma: That's that's funny that that starts to get into some weird sci-fi stuff, but I know I know, but it's it's it's because I can't. I don't want to type just like, have you? Have you done the Turin test on it yet.
01:00:29.179 --> 01:00:47.868
Lawrence obioma: II don't care. I mean it will probably pass. II appreciate people will already. It's getting also, if you use it frequently enough. You notice it keeps getting better. Yeah. But anyway, so if you look at a 2,000 right? And the reason why I thought about this was also. Well, I thought about this before I found the grid before I went back to the Grid trading guide.
01:00:48.119 --> 01:01:00.539
Lawrence obioma: because I knew he said something about the account where he had a thousand dollar account that he was just growing, and what he does is that he said that whenever he reaches a certain amount of profit. He just takes out the month the money from it, because
01:01:00.659 --> 01:01:12.050
Lawrence obioma: he's he's already made his profit. He's using the profits from that to fund his bigger account right? So he's using the profits from a a more risky $1,000 that he doesn't care about
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:19.998
Lawrence obioma: is bigger. Right? And then I was starting to, I was starting to think about, okay, well, what if we use a thousand account? Right?
01:01:20.010 --> 01:01:27.809
Lawrence obioma: And we size it 3. And yeah, there we go, you know, at 400 trade you already halfway map mark
01:01:27.849 --> 01:01:43.149
Lawrence obioma: of the same amount of equity as the other one. And after after 600 trade. So I actually test tested this on one of our strategies. And it it's funny cause II I've also confused because I first I use. So I use 20,001% risk.
01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:55.079
Lawrence obioma: And it got to 30 k, 5 years. And then I use 2,003% risk. And it was at 30 K. 2. I didn't know if I had put the wrong settings, because it was the same. It was almost the same of valleys.
01:01:55.090 --> 01:02:02.720
Lawrence obioma: And but yeah, I look at the chart, it's just steeper chat, and guess what was. So the first one had a 12 of
01:02:02.800 --> 01:02:30.130
Lawrence obioma: 4% drawdown, and the 2, 2 K account had a 12% drawdown, which I was like, I can manage a 12% drawdown or money. That is all. Just profit like it's not money. And this is on back tested through data. But I tried it on live data to it's it's essentially the same thing, same ec, improvement. So what I'm gonna do. So what we can do now is we can take a $2,000 account. We can get it up to about, you know, 20 to 30 k. Right in in less than a year.
01:02:30.229 --> 01:02:33.998
Lawrence obioma: and we can take. We can take the profits from that.
01:02:34.149 --> 01:02:48.050
Lawrence obioma: And just we feed our other account and bring that account back to 2,000, so that it doesn't affect our overall equity cause, as you can see at some point, the money overtakes, how much money you have in your equity. And then what it happens is that now it's drawing down your entire
01:02:48.649 --> 01:03:04.238
Lawrence obioma: quote, unquote portfolio, your your self, your network, your network. So at some point you do have to stop it. You can't keep letting it go wild because it's going to affect your network. But I guess realistically, you only started with 2,000. 2,000. Who who cares if you're down?
01:03:04.359 --> 01:03:08.068
Lawrence obioma: 500 k. From the top? If you're already up
01:03:08.319 --> 01:03:09.349
Lawrence obioma: certain amount.
01:03:09.859 --> 01:03:19.960
Lawrence obioma: Here's the difficulty with that, though, is when you map this out using computer programs and all of that, it's very objective.
01:03:19.989 --> 01:03:27.519
Danny Camozzo: and you don't really have to worry about it in the individual trades that you're taking. But when you're a discretionary trader and you're not using algos and you're relying on
01:03:27.579 --> 01:03:36.509
Danny Camozzo: just your own ability, each trade. There's so much subjectivity that it makes it hard. I don't know if I could.
01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:40.500
Lawrence obioma: The reason why I did this in computers. I don't think a human should do this.
01:03:40.739 --> 01:03:41.609
Lawrence obioma: please.
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.670
Lawrence obioma: So remember what I said. You are the equity curve.
01:03:46.029 --> 01:03:53.488
Lawrence obioma: So if you're not trading the way you want to trade your your your strategy might change all right automatically.
01:03:53.619 --> 01:04:09.010
Lawrence obioma: and if your equity is now affecting how you trade, you are not the same trader I wanted to invest in initially. So I need input values are always changing. Yeah, I need you to stay the same.
01:04:13.369 --> 01:04:33.318
Lawrence obioma: What am I gonna do.
01:04:33.500 --> 01:04:44.939
Lawrence obioma: I think, like the the reason why I think of this right? It's also, I'm thinking, like fund wise. Right? Let's say fund. I wanted to start a fund right? If I if someone came in with various like, I'm doing a fund for like, really, really
01:04:45.250 --> 01:04:55.699
Lawrence obioma: really, really, small, small like people who don't have that much money, and I'll give them access to all the strategy. Right with 2 K. Just 2 K.
01:04:55.970 --> 01:04:57.568
Lawrence obioma: But I will run
01:04:57.809 --> 01:05:06.500
Lawrence obioma: and you you they it runs like they don't care about the money, and it just runs on that. Once they reach a certain profitable point like 14 to 1010 to 20 K.
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:31.029
Lawrence obioma: I will take, like, you know, you know, like 40 to 60% of that and leave them whatever else is left to actually trade for themselves. But the reason why I'll do that is because now I'm not risking my money, and because it's just money that they wanted. They don't even care about now. I could do it with my money, but then I don't really have to do it as frequent like, because this is. The idea is that once, after a certain amount of time, you always have to bring that come back down, because if you keep letting go wild, you.
01:05:31.489 --> 01:05:42.868
Lawrence obioma: You will. You will. It will start to affect your network. Yeah, it seems like the the bots at 1 point will pull off and mad money mad. Matt has money, move it all back. So.
01:05:42.970 --> 01:05:51.179
Lawrence obioma: But I mean, that's any that could happen to anybody. Is is happening to someone.
01:05:51.970 --> 01:06:01.670
Lawrence obioma: But yeah, that was, that was why so so next in the next couple of weeks. Well, with, I'm working on it right now is that I'm actually using my own account. And I, what I'm doing is I'm just creating
01:06:01.819 --> 01:06:02.809
Lawrence obioma: to
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:31.108
Lawrence obioma: simulations that are going so like my normal strategies are gonna be running with this much money. The 2,000 account is gonna be running with this much money when they trade on the same account. They're gonna be taking the same amount. The risk that's equivalent to what each one of them do. And so you will see the equity actually show up in my account with both of them combined, but I can also isolate them in this simulation to see how each one of them is doing so. I can keep track of the 30, the
01:06:31.130 --> 01:06:50.599
Lawrence obioma: 30 to $60,000 account here, and I can keep track of the $2,000 account of, you know, one to $2,000 account. Yeah. And if I wanna and you know I don't, we don't care about the monies is 2 grand. It's not gonna affect anything. I've already made that in much. So once we double it up, the idea is that you start taking profits from it. So once we get to 4 K.
01:06:50.599 --> 01:07:12.979
Lawrence obioma: Was that taking profits for me, but treat it like it's a 4 K. Account. And at that point it's just gonna keep playing with that money like, even if it draws out 5 like, I guess. Remember, I'm providing the margin for it so they can take strategies on. It can take trades on all of these large caps so they can. You know trade, apple or whatever like. It's just. It's just a smaller account. But remember, it's going to be moving differently, underlying all of the
01:07:13.059 --> 01:07:27.618
Lawrence obioma: the combined equity like. Then my normal one is going to be moving normally, and then that one is going to be doing a little bit. When do I stop it? When I see that this one is affecting our portfolio too much, when the $2,000 account is affecting the portfolio too much. I just like alright need to take out the money.
01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:33.539
Lawrence obioma: bring it back down. This is a really really interesting way of growing, and a small account.
01:07:33.739 --> 01:07:45.699
Lawrence obioma: curious like a thoughts on it, though, because there, there's definitely risk associated with it. But I think it's I kind of have been thinking it through. And I thought, II think it's actually worth at least attempting.
01:07:45.859 --> 01:07:57.380
Alexander Winkler: Yeah, definitely try it. I mean, Ross always does a small account challenges. So this is, I'll go version of that. And when he does a small account challenges he uses a crap ton of leverage.
01:07:57.470 --> 01:08:22.429
Lawrence obioma: So he can grow $500 into 50,000 like a month. That's like
01:08:22.429 --> 01:08:38.099
Lawrence obioma: almost 20% of the account of the risk of the first rate. That's pretty really crazy. If you really think about it. But but he can do with his level of expertise in the right market, and probably right now in the summer would be a little tricky, because you have those, you know, 3 red rates in a row.
01:08:38.099 --> 01:09:02.909
Lawrence obioma: you can almost blow the get blow. The account? Yeah, it is totally luck of the draw. But it's it's definitely possible. So II think with an AI, it'd be kind of cool to or not an AI, but basically. And I'll go, but would do like 3 or 4 different small count challenges and see how fast you can grow them like 20 or some
01:09:02.909 --> 01:09:15.809
Lawrence obioma: content at some point. I've never really known how to make content. For training in a good way. But I think this would be a good way, but I don't have to actually take the trade, and people will still tune in to see
01:09:15.819 --> 01:09:22.818
Lawrence obioma: how I change that $2,000 account to a $40,000 account.
01:09:23.559 --> 01:09:26.719
Alexander Winkler: Yeah, I'm actually looking forward to hear the follow up on that one.
01:09:26.750 --> 01:09:43.279
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, we're working. I'm working on the code right now. I have to talk to my brother about some things, but it should be it should be done by beginning of next week, so we'll start running that I'm also working on this new high frequency strategy. We, we added our 8 strategy which improve that equity curve like by a lot.
01:09:43.340 --> 01:09:45.898
Lawrence obioma: And on live data tested on live data.
01:09:45.909 --> 01:09:54.239
Lawrence obioma: If from the beginning of the year it improves, everything. So now is is, it seems like we're just getting to the point slowly but surely where it's like, essentially just a straight
01:09:54.409 --> 01:09:56.510
Lawrence obioma: straighta straight, a equity curve.
01:09:56.569 --> 01:10:06.688
Lawrence obioma: But you know II am curious, though, because Danny said that you know you're taking a bunch of your money out at the end of this year. From your account, are you? Just gonna
01:10:07.269 --> 01:10:13.609
Lawrence obioma: I what are you? Are you gonna take more excessive risk with the money you leave after that, or
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:15.729
Lawrence obioma: please. I'd like to.
01:10:15.899 --> 01:10:19.880
Danny Camozzo: Yeah, I'd like to. But it depends on what we see in the market.
01:10:20.170 --> 01:10:28.369
Danny Camozzo: like mentally, it might be helpful to have done that. And just to have that full understanding of like this is pure
01:10:28.420 --> 01:10:32.720
Danny Camozzo: profit, and I should be taking the risk with it.
01:10:32.989 --> 01:10:44.868
Danny Camozzo: it totally depends it. It really just depends on like the quality of the moves that we're seeing. But I think that that's helpful, like, you know you you have success over time, and
01:10:45.149 --> 01:11:00.729
Danny Camozzo: I don't think it's gonna be a massive change from what I'm doing right now at all. But it just. It's just seeing success over time. That gives you the confidence to take more size, as you see, better, as you see, a good quality setup that you think is good. And going back to like that sizing is
01:11:01.069 --> 01:11:11.429
Danny Camozzo: you know, last time I hit a move that looks like this. I was doing 3,000 3,500 shares. Maybe this time I should do like 4,000 505,000 6,000 shares.
01:11:11.789 --> 01:11:23.960
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I think it's I think it goes back to the idea that we talked about, and I don't know if it was the first time I was here. But the that you need to add different goals or different points of your equity. You need to say when my
01:11:24.289 --> 01:11:48.269
Lawrence obioma: percentage of risk per trade increases versus decreases like over a certain like like you can have like right now, you might use 2,000 shares to 8,000 shares. Well, when you go to saying, Okay, I need to start using, and whatever percentage of your equity that is, I don't know what range that would be. But you could say, it's that same guy needs to start using 4,000 to 12,000 or whatever, because at that point you can now start to say, okay.
01:11:48.269 --> 01:12:08.038
Lawrence obioma: I know for a fact that I've switched my mindset. You know, I think it's very easy, especially traders, to just want to be as discretional as possible, but some objectivity of like. And you could just use your data. Actually, I could just pull up your data and say, Okay, how much shares do you do you use on a on a regular basis per trade? And I could say, Okay, Danny, I know this is how much you use right now.
01:12:08.139 --> 01:12:18.300
Lawrence obioma: This is how much you used to use before you see how you're betting more, even if your equity, like your equity, was 40 grand, and you were using about. You were risking about 20
01:12:18.550 --> 01:12:22.649
Lawrence obioma: you were risking about 5% per trade before. Why is it now that you're adding
01:12:22.869 --> 01:12:33.489
Lawrence obioma: 200 grand. You're risking? Only 1% of your trade. Did you make that decision? 1% of your equity? Did you make that decision? Actively, because you were like, I'm 5 with this much money.
01:12:33.489 --> 01:12:52.309
Lawrence obioma: Or do you want to go back to that 3% and really keep the exponential bet sizing as possible, like kind of doing. There's there's definitely a ceiling at 1 point with these small caps. Right? Like, I think, moving. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that's what is. Another part of it is that, do you just hit your ceiling where you kind of use your your
01:12:52.309 --> 01:13:04.688
Danny Camozzo: yeah. That's that's part of it. I know that as I start to get into bigger positions, I'm going to have to somewhat adjust my strategy because I'm not going to be able to hit by market for
01:13:04.689 --> 01:13:08.578
Danny Camozzo: 8,000 shares and expect to get a decent fill. I'm going to have to hit
01:13:08.649 --> 01:13:18.679
Danny Camozzo: by market 3,000 or 4,000 shares twice and hope that it gets me in at the right spot. And it's probably gonna affect my old time. I'm gonna have to be
01:13:19.179 --> 01:13:21.269
Danny Camozzo: just
01:13:21.460 --> 01:13:33.648
Danny Camozzo: observing and and trying to be doing that on the best quality trades that I think you know. If I'm if I'm forced to be holding this longer because I have to take multiple orders on it.
01:13:33.849 --> 01:13:36.229
Danny Camozzo: Do I think that it has the potential to be
01:13:36.300 --> 01:13:42.139
Danny Camozzo: continuing to go up in 2 or 3 min rather than my timeframe right now is very quick.
01:13:42.260 --> 01:13:51.929
Danny Camozzo: Where, if I take just my one order, all I really have to be thinking about is the next one or 2 min. But as I'm taking 8
01:13:52.039 --> 01:13:55.699
Danny Camozzo: 12,000 shares, or something like that, the
01:13:55.869 --> 01:14:03.618
Danny Camozzo: price, range and volatility and volume is going to have to support being able to get out of that position for a profit.
01:14:03.779 --> 01:14:09.470
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I like, I deal with that, too. When we're gonna do, I mean, we're we're gonna start sizing
01:14:09.599 --> 01:14:16.149
Lawrence obioma: up by the beginning of next year, like up to, you know, I don't know what. Just like risking.
01:14:16.639 --> 01:14:24.838
Lawrence obioma: We're risking the same account because I'm I'm increasing my account soon. Well, wait, hold up. We gotta we gotta wrap up soon here. So
01:14:25.139 --> 01:14:29.269
Lawrence obioma: oh, okay, that's a that's a big second topic here, increasing the account size.
01:14:30.130 --> 01:14:40.119
Alexander Winkler: But how about next, Pod? You could share us about if you get it, that'd be really cool. The increasing of the small accounts. Get some charts for that.
01:14:40.220 --> 01:14:43.789
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, yeah, I'll I don't. I don't know what.
01:14:44.670 --> 01:15:02.349
Lawrence obioma: I don't know if we it's not going to be live until next week, but an example of what it looks like on the 2,000 little account on the live trade we've already taken. Like with the live data we've already ran it through. And it should be should be around.
01:15:02.609 --> 01:15:05.220
Lawrence obioma: 200% increase. I'm assuming.
01:15:05.250 --> 01:15:18.498
Alexander Winkler: yeah, it's definitely be interesting to watch those those different small count challenges, and that I'll go. I'll go space. Is there? Is there anything you guys wanna wrap up with or mention before we wrap up here.
01:15:19.659 --> 01:15:26.929
Danny Camozzo: The only thing for me is that August continues to be.
01:15:27.460 --> 01:15:37.449
Danny Camozzo: I'm only allowed to make money on Tuesdays. Well, hold on. Look at this. So
01:15:37.479 --> 01:15:48.269
Danny Camozzo: I'm only allowed to make money on Tuesdays. But I'm making a lot of money on Tuesday, only and I wore the right shirt for today.
01:15:48.489 --> 01:16:00.000
Danny Camozzo: This is my favorite shirt, and that's that's it for me. I love that shirt. Actually, I was looking at that shirt earlier, and I was like, I know this one. I know it.
01:16:00.210 --> 01:16:19.979
Danny Camozzo: Yeah, anyways, yeah, that's it for me. We'll see what happens on Icc T. When it eventually resumes what the news is, and whatever happens halt isn't the end of the world. Sometimes you do see them resume decently, and then people think that means bad. So you get short stuck in it and we'll see what happens. I don't know.
01:16:21.399 --> 01:16:45.899
Alexander Winkler: Yeah, I'm gonna we'll see. I was actually thinking today if I should take this week off. But I think I'm gonna stick around a little bit. But yeah, I think patience right now is key. Try not to dig yourself in a deep hole and and then get green. II kind of duck myself in a hole today, and then I kind of got back to even. But it's like exhausting.
01:16:45.899 --> 01:17:00.939
Danny Camozzo: It doesn't feel good still. No, no, it's it is the worst. So right now it's just so easy to take a whole, so I don't know. Be patient as possible. Also, it's a 3 day weekend coming up Monday. It's Labor Day markets are closed.
01:17:00.939 --> 01:17:25.849
Alexander Winkler: Often I notice that the day leading up to a 3 day weekend is extra low momentum and volume. So Friday, be careful. You never know it could be the most volume we've ever seen, but I do notice the trend, so I do tend to take those days off myself, because, you know, people are like, Oh, Labor Day weekend we're flying to grandma. We're leaving on Friday. Blah! Blah! Blah! I think you times that by all the traders in the world, even if it's just 10% of traffic
01:17:25.849 --> 01:17:32.868
Alexander Winkler: doing it. It just, you know, you feel that in the market. So be mindful of that, I would say, going into the end of this week
01:17:33.189 --> 01:17:34.439
Danny Camozzo: and breed
01:17:34.729 --> 01:17:46.309
Lawrence obioma: yeah. And hopefully, after Labor Day weekend, we finally get some like consistent big metum again. And you know it's back to school, and we'll see
01:17:46.510 --> 01:17:55.068
Lawrence obioma: it's dry. It's probably with you guys. I mean, it's just a straight line. And hopefully, after I I'm hoping October or September is going to be like a big big month.
01:17:55.349 --> 01:17:58.488
Danny Camozzo: Yeah. Well, everybody is thinking that. And
01:17:58.729 --> 01:18:08.739
Danny Camozzo: maybe it's going to be a self fulfilling prophecy where everybody expects August to be slow. We have Labor Day. After that. You're in the fall. And
01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:21.429
Danny Camozzo: you're gonna have people coming back from vacation. People understanding that August is typically slow, but it starts to heat back up in September. So we'll see what happens. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited.
01:18:21.599 --> 01:18:23.869
Alexander Winkler: Alright guys, nice chat
01:18:24.039 --> 01:18:34.809
Alexander Winkler: lot of new topics here or different. Take on topics. We've had several times. So it was nice. See, you guys, then next week, good luck. Everyone
01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:38.048
Danny Camozzo: sounds good. See you guys later. Well, Jaja.