🎉 Hey Insiders, Episode 30 of the Insider Trading Podcast is now live! 🎧
This episode is a treasure trove of trading insights. It's not just one of our longer pods but also first time having 6 traders on it!
0:00 🚗 Live Trading VFS Stock (VinFast Auto Shares)
10:25 📈 Trading Saturated & Correlated Markets
24:40 ☀️ Summer Trading & Negative Expected Value
28:45 🤖 The Future Of Day Trading (Algos & Copy Trading)
34:33 🛡️ Risk Tolerance & Aggression
36:50 🌟 Daniel's Trading Journey
39:08 💹 Alex's Trading Journey
44:30 🎯 Colby's Trading Journey
48:55 🎰 Finding The Extreme "Broke Slot Machine"
53:10 🚀 Tom's Trading Journey
57:20 ⚙️ Side Hustles & Self Improvement
1:17:04 📊 How To Analyze Your Trading Stats
1:18:52 ❌ Are Max Loss Rules Good?
1:30:35 💼 Trading Your Own Personality
NEW FOR NEXT PODCAST: Questions asked in the current week will be highlighted and answered on the next podcast. So make sure to leave your question in the comments below the video or in the discord! We're eager to engage directly with you.
As always, we're incredibly grateful for your support. If you have any questions, suggestions, or feedback, please don't hesitate to reach out or leave a comment below the video. We're always here to help! 😊
#Love from the insiders ❤️
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Toby Dawson: I am already in the halt, Toby?
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Toby Dawson: He's on.
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Daniel Camozzo: I'm only in with 94 shares from 38, 50. So
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Toby Dawson: showing a dollar lower resumption. Now let's see here
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Lawrence obioma: all alone.
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Daniel Camozzo: But I'm not too worried about that.
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Daniel Camozzo: As long as it holds like 40 or 40 50 feel like there's still a pretty good chance. It'll squeeze higher.
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Alexander Winkler: trying to get get our audience to get that anxiety push
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Alexander Winkler: you got your your bot telling you it's it's telling us what's up. And
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Daniel Camozzo: I'm I'm sitting nicely green on it at this point. So just kinda going to hold on. See what happens on resumption.
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Alexander Winkler: Nice. Feel free. I'm surprised that it's showing. Share my screen. If you want.
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Daniel Camozzo: we're surprised that it's showing such a lower resumption. Yeah, I can show mine.
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Alexander Winkler: You just have the better resumption. I don't have all that.
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Toby Dawson: Yeah.
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Daniel Camozzo: 10 s. There you go, prices coming back up a little bit. So
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Daniel Camozzo: back down to 40 27. I wonder where it'll open 39, 77. Interesting, but
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Toby Dawson: it probably is doing the ball.
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Daniel Camozzo: But watch this if it holds 41.
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Daniel Camozzo: So ask, is 41, 25,
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Toby Dawson: as long as it holds up here.
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Daniel Camozzo: I think we're good for like 43 44.
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Daniel Camozzo: So there you go
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Lawrence obioma: definitely looked like it. I don't trade this much anymore. But this was, this is very much a squeezy
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Daniel Camozzo: yeah, exactly like this type of thing. I'm not. I'm not that worried. If it's opening a little bit lower after this big of a move up
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Lawrence obioma: mobile. And that's that's another reason. That's another reason, like
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Toby Dawson: freedom. S.
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Lawrence obioma: Oh, well, do so well, because there's actually a very high maximum favorable excursion. If you're trading something with this
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Lawrence obioma: as it like it won't, it wouldn't drop down. It wouldn't drop down that badly now that II think about it from an like.
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Toby Dawson: yeah, what is what is like?
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Alexander Winkler: Jeez Toby? Your butt speakers?
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Toby Dawson: Damn! That is ridiculous!
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Daniel Camozzo: Is this a time to buy a pullback. It might be. I'm going to 43, 20,
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Daniel Camozzo: just a hundred shares.
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Toby Dawson: Danny. but
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Alexander Winkler: great great traits so far
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Toby Dawson: rap all the way back.
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Daniel Camozzo: Like to see it get back over 43 at this point, obviously. But if it doesn't, I'll just cut it, and I'll have lost a hundred bucks off the top, which is not a big deal.
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Daniel Camozzo: I think it's it was worth
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Daniel Camozzo: trying to take a position there. Alright, it's going lower. So I lost 140 bucks on that position, whatever.
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Daniel Camozzo: kind of too bad, because
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Daniel Camozzo: I think I didn't make any money after the hulk.
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Alexander Winkler: Hmm good point. Oh, did you dump it when it resumed?
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Daniel Camozzo: No, I held it, and I sold through the push higher. I got up to like 1,700 on it. And then
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Daniel Camozzo: I bought the pullback here
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Daniel Camozzo: 43, 20, just with a hundred 14 shares
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Daniel Camozzo: really small size.
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Daniel Camozzo: I think if it was going to have pulled back and then base out and go higher. That was a really good spot to do it. for some reason, whatever
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Daniel Camozzo: whatever's going on in it. That's a really really strong rejection there.
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Daniel Camozzo: So I don't know
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Daniel Camozzo: but it's been kind of a tough.
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Daniel Camozzo: choppy day. I started out just doing my best to like be less than 200 300 red.
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Alexander Winkler: And at this point I'm
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Daniel Camozzo: I'm at 1950. So.
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Alexander Winkler: and that's great. On the day in this market. I think
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Daniel Camozzo: it's good. It's
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Daniel Camozzo: so much needed. I've just been getting beaten up so bad like every day.
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Daniel Camozzo: Yeah. Me, too. Well, the kind of frustrating thing for me. And and you guys who look at my Instagram post and Pnl each day, you probably realize how frustrating it is nearly every day to go from like 2 or 3, grant one to 3, grand red straight back to 0 on like one good move at the end of the day that pops out of nowhere.
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Daniel Camozzo: and it's like.
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Daniel Camozzo: I'm glad I can do that. But I really need to work on avoiding the
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Daniel Camozzo: the Bs before we get those moves. And I did a better job with that today. So
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Alexander Winkler: it's funny. You say that because Toby was telling me yesterday he had a similar thing he also read.
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Toby Dawson: I was only like net minus like 50 bucks, just kind of cruising no big deal. And then II don't know what happened.
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Toby Dawson: I wasn't.
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Toby Dawson: I think I just got greedy or something, and I paste the halt.
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Toby Dawson: and it just kept dumping on me, and I just kept
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Toby Dawson: exiting the trade, and then re-entering. That's the biggest
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Daniel Camozzo: thing that I'm doing bad lately is just taking a position in something that, like, I know is not my best thing like a mid cap. I traded as yesterday. I was red on it. And I'll take a position on it. I'll lose 50 or 100 bucks. Then all of a sudden, I'm actively trading it and losing way. More than that. And
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Daniel Camozzo: I just need to not touch them, which I did better on today. So it's all just learning and doing better. But I, you know.
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Toby Dawson: lost. I guess it's more of like a revenge trade at that point, because
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Toby Dawson: the next trade was double the size
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Toby Dawson: lost again, and then
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Toby Dawson: and I was only 50 bucks down like 5 min before that.
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Daniel Camozzo: Exactly. I went from down 200 on the day to down 30000, my God! Actually no! Yesterday just 2 2,000!
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Toby Dawson: But I kept trading it, and then I was able to get back to only negative 800 on it.
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Toby Dawson: And then at the end of the day, Sos popped up and started to really squeeze
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Toby Dawson: right. And I hit that for about a grand. So I was.
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Toby Dawson: I was only like a couple of months ago.
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Daniel Camozzo: Yeah, I made 2,400 on that in the last, like 30 min of the market. And I was like.
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Daniel Camozzo: Can't I just like do better, and not be starting down 2,000? In the first place, yeah, exactly. Well, I did that today. So actually, II nearly didn't. I started trading Nvidia out of the open, and I was going long, with like small size trying to catch the bounce cause I saw. Obviously it gapped up today. I thought we would have
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Daniel Camozzo: a little bit of a dip, some gap, fill down to the downside, and then a nice big balance.
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Daniel Camozzo: So I was trying to size in small into that bounce, and before I knew it I was down a thousand on it.
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Daniel Camozzo: I took
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Daniel Camozzo: once it came down here I took 300 shares short and made like 900 back on that trade, or 800 or something. So I'm only read 200 on it, which is.
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Daniel Camozzo: that was a beautiful trend following trade right there, and that was you had the
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Daniel Camozzo: extension to the downside kind of test of support. See if that was gonna hold kind of didn't. But then a bigger Bullish candle.
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Daniel Camozzo: a bit of a Bullish trend, and then a complete failure of that trend. So that was pretty. That was a pretty obvious short to me at that point.
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Daniel Camozzo: So I hit that with
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Daniel Camozzo: decent size. Honestly, that's like a
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Daniel Camozzo: like a hundred, 30 $5,000 position, which is not not something that I normally do on something like Nvidia, or
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Daniel Camozzo: large gaps like that. But but I thought that the trade made sense so
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Toby Dawson: scaled, scaled out, and covered down into the
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Toby Dawson: somewhere down here. It went straight up like a rocket ship yesterday.
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Daniel Camozzo: Yeah. And 100 billion dollars in market cap in one day. Crazy
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Toby Dawson: pretty much green on it yesterday.
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Colby Warshel: pretty much. Yeah. I made this.
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Daniel Camozzo: I made a couple of 100 on it yesterday. It helped my day out a little bit
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Daniel Camozzo: little confused about the sell off here on Vfs.
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Tommy Salerno: someone's just confused about the sell off. It's up 300%.
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Daniel Camozzo: I don't.
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Tommy Salerno: What are you talking about feels like a great dip by
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Tommy Salerno: from 3 to 48, 3, 30 to 48, just like, in what? 20 min?
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Tommy Salerno: I'm confused. Okay.
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Colby Warshel: why isn't this going to 100 and video would be a really good one for you to cover at 1 point, maybe cause it looks like the perfect thing to discuss with add and void as it just breaks hard keeps the trend. I don't know if you're looking at that.
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Alexander Winkler: Colby. Yeah, yeah.
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Colby Warshel: I don't. I don't really trade any large caps anymore, because I'm trying to just completely hone in on like one like extremely simple, break it down into like 2 variables. If these 2 variables exist, I take it, if they don't, I don't. And today
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Colby Warshel: well, what the so well, the the es futures well, any S features, for now, until I can size back up. But
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Lawrence obioma: I'm assuming
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Colby Warshel: I mean, the futures are the main market, and then the spy is just derivative of that in stock form.
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Colby Warshel: Yeah, yeah.
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Daniel Camozzo: right? HD, is having a nice move.
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Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I guess what what I'm saying is that they're all relatively correlated, right? So they they are highly correlated. So you're essentially just trading the same thing.
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Lawrence obioma: Oh, yeah, okay, that's why I mean, yeah, kind of trading the same thing depending on.
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Colby Warshel: Yeah, mostly pretty much.
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Daniel Camozzo: Yeah.
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Daniel Camozzo: which one's leading the market which one you're creating.
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Lawrence obioma: So obviously for me like, that's the biggest thing I have to think about like what? I can't have 2 positions in 2 things that move the same. It's the same thing as me having the same risk.
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Lawrence obioma: So so I have to. I have to like so like people. Waste. People want to think that everything is correlated to spy. Well, not necessarily like. If you look at Johnson and Johnson and look at Xom today. Xom is up, I think. In the first hour, and the other all of them are are relatively different. Right? They have very different slightly different correlation, especially on the first hour.
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Lawrence obioma: So I have to think about that like when I enter when a position is entered, make sure there's no correlation between the the strategies that are.
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Lawrence obioma: Do you? Do you try to target opposite sectors? Then, like risk on versus risk off sectors.
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Lawrence obioma: I don't really. I don't really think about
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Lawrence obioma: really think about the sectors. I just I run them through a correlation scan. So most of these symbols. I don't even know what they mean like until I have to look it up. Because that's exactly what I was thinking. I'm like, I have no idea what I'm trading. If I know that it's moving, making me money. Because when I create a strategy, right? The idea for the strategies. Okay, make sure the strategy works on a lot of things.
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Lawrence obioma: Okay, when the strategy works in a lot of things. Now make sure you you get batches of correlations that are different. Now, when you're done with that, then you do robust and testing that you do all of this. Now the hard part is the beginning part, which is the idea, and all of that. But I have a bunch of correlation. Things that I can. I can check. I can check correlation for just the first hour. So on the consistent basis, how they are different, I can check correlation of the when the price all this open up. I can check correlation for anything if I wanted to, if I really coded it for that idea. So
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Lawrence obioma: it's it's it's very important, because just. I don't ever want to double my risk
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Lawrence obioma: like you. You would see if like, if you saw my, my, I the strategies run. You never see 2 strategy. You rarely see 2 strategies kind of taking the same idea. On the same stocks. They kind of move differently.
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Colby Warshel: So like you. Let's say you're looking at like a long strategy just based off of some variable. You're not going to go long, Apple and Nvidia at the same time, because they're both correlated directly to the Nasdaq.
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Lawrence obioma: They're not. They're not even in the same strategy. So like the strategy already has stocks that I put into them.
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Lawrence obioma: Nvidia would not be with apple.
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Lawrence obioma: they would automatically be voided. One of them has to be the one to go, so I kind of pick which one makes the most sense and it's it's kind of the same thing you guys do to like on a okay. So you guys do that on a on a consistent basis when you trade like low floats, or even just anything, because you're one individual, right? So you're trading
00:14:43.209 --> 00:15:08.019
Lawrence obioma: you. You're never into trades at once for the most part, right? So you, if something is going down, you're not. The thing is going up so you'll you're choosing the thing that is like. But most of these small caps will get correlated on a day like how many times you see, when one ticket is going 200, everything goes up 1050%, and then when they all go down, they go down. But you see that one that is still going up. Well, probably that one that is still going up has any regularity. Maybe there's a small
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Lawrence obioma: small cap. There's a a short short seller that is getting squeezed out. That is pretty much pushing it up. And now this is the one that goes up 300. But you're choosing correlation to wanna
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Lawrence obioma: on a you know, in
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Lawrence obioma: so implicitly like you're you're choosing to trade the thing that is not correlated to the bad things. And if everything was just going up, if, like, for example, if Tommy just put 5 positions and things that were just going up and they all went down, he's taking the same trade. He could have just focused on the one that would have
00:15:38.389 --> 00:15:41.560
Lawrence obioma: done better and and not not kind of
00:15:41.669 --> 00:15:58.498
Lawrence obioma: discombobulate yourself and and not know what's going on. Because II that probably happens a lot. We go in like, you know, 2, 3. They all start going out at same time. You're like, well, I could just focus on that one and and not had to, you know. Do that. I remember I used to do that a lot back in the day. And now I think about that where I where I do correlation. I'm like.
00:15:58.610 --> 00:15:59.800
Daniel Camozzo: I could've just yeah
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Alexander Winkler: yeah lost the money on one. I don't want to lose it. And then you get confused, and you you hate your day. And it's like trading the best taker like if there's several takers wanna focus on the best one times. That's really there's one that really works. The other ones are all like Iffy.
00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:23.009
Lawrence obioma: I would say, oh, I think there's well you got.
00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:36.280
Daniel Camozzo: I think there's that choosing the best one for one. Obviously, you wanna choose the one with the most relative strength, but then, being able to just completely focus on it and trade it as best as you can, is another edge in itself.
00:16:36.790 --> 00:16:43.980
Colby Warshel: rather than focusing on 2 or 3 things that are moving. Do you have Atr and Arvall in your
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.780
Lawrence obioma: I we use atl only for like
00:16:48.110 --> 00:16:53.129
Lawrence obioma: stop lost like where the stop loss should be. But I don't. I don't think we we have.
00:16:53.260 --> 00:17:07.050
Lawrence obioma: I mean, there's so many of better ways to do different things. You can use any you can really use like Atl can give you volatility. It can give you ring we can give you like expected
00:17:07.159 --> 00:17:19.579
Lawrence obioma: expected returns over some few. You can use it for anything if you're really creative with it. So it's really just what you have. But back to like Danny's point like it's not only just looking for.
00:17:20.090 --> 00:17:24.969
Lawrence obioma: It's not only just looking for what's the best for what's the best for you.
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Lawrence obioma: because what happens is that
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Lawrence obioma: if, like, for example.
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Lawrence obioma: okay, so I'm tell everything is correlated like apple. Why don't I just pick if apple and video and all these are correlated, why not just pick
00:17:38.039 --> 00:18:04.460
Lawrence obioma: Nvidia instead of apple. Right? Well, why is Apple the best? Because there, there, micro economics, and maybe macro economic reasons why apple will do better over along back tested like, you know, the company is better just all the structure of the app. The the price movement is just stronger upward, and so like, though they move down at the same time, when apple moves down and moves down less.
00:18:04.579 --> 00:18:26.208
Lawrence obioma: So that's where that's what how you distinguish, which is better versus which is worse. And for us, you know, when you're training discretionarily, you can just see that. But you know, when you you're doing this code and code, you have to like be able to measure everything to some extent, because you need to understand why you're making the decisions you're making, because you can't just have a portfolio that isn't like
00:18:26.639 --> 00:18:30.230
Lawrence obioma: you know, talk through. But yeah, I think Toby just said something muted.
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Lawrence obioma: Oh, never mind. Okay.
00:18:34.809 --> 00:18:39.150
Colby Warshel: Toby. You're muted. I don't know if you're but
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Lawrence obioma: he's good.
00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:44.619
Toby Dawson: I said, but when it moves up it moves up less.
00:18:45.070 --> 00:18:56.619
Alexander Winkler: So let me let me explain this I'm doing. I'm dealing with this right now, what is move up less?
00:18:57.210 --> 00:19:01.548
Lawrence obioma: Is it move up less? Just means that you didn't take a bigger position.
00:19:01.840 --> 00:19:23.358
Lawrence obioma: because really you can define how much something moves by how much you size, because your equity is based off like what you're expecting. Your expected return, like everything we're trading, are just vehicles for growth. That's why you can have someone who's trading the same thing as you make only 100 bucks. And then another person is making 20,000. And you guys could take the same trade.
00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:29.938
Lawrence obioma: It's all about sizing. That's why I always say it always goes back to sizing. So when something moves up less. but is more stable.
00:19:30.260 --> 00:19:38.070
Lawrence obioma: maybe go for that, because it's more stable in moving up. Now, you can just size and control. You can control your equity growth based off your sizing
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:46.789
Toby Dawson: so different way to think about that. So that's the same thing with, if it's you said that apple moves down less. So it's I mean, you can say the exact same thing for that, too.
00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:57.719
Lawrence obioma: No, I'm what I'm saying is that if something moves that, yeah. But but the thing is that it moves down less and is most stable. So like certain things like Tesla, for example, when he moves down.
00:19:57.849 --> 00:19:59.088
Lawrence obioma: is aggressive.
00:19:59.210 --> 00:20:17.019
Lawrence obioma: When he moves up. It's it's aggressive. But like so it can, you can react to it. You can react to it differently. Based on trust me because II apple is like is like all of our long strategies, and we have like 6 full of them. I get to see how it reacts to to
00:20:17.170 --> 00:20:24.990
Lawrence obioma: price is, is just a lot more stable. And I think that shows in the equity chart. If you look at the chart on on Webel or
00:20:25.260 --> 00:20:33.248
Lawrence obioma: most of you guys all. Tdm, manager. right? I don't think anyone train station is also really good. If anyone using that
00:20:33.719 --> 00:20:38.360
Colby Warshel: sounds like you're kind of explaining a little bit of the term beta
00:20:39.010 --> 00:20:43.579
Tommy Salerno: correlation with the overall market. Some stocks are more volatile.
00:20:43.889 --> 00:20:52.449
Lawrence obioma: Yeah. But the thing about apple is that in general like.
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:54.449
Lawrence obioma: look at. Look at a day
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.338
Lawrence obioma: where the market is really strongly down.
00:20:57.349 --> 00:21:18.588
Lawrence obioma: like going down. And just look at how apple reacts to it like it goes down so softly like it tries to hold itself. And there's a lot of reasons you could say that like, you know, pension funds. Try, you know, putting in buying orders. And there's there's a lot of different macro economics for apple to be number one. I mean, literally, the is the first to. It's the first thing you search.
00:21:18.590 --> 00:21:33.219
Lawrence obioma: When you look up, a stock is 2 A's. It's like the first thing on on every ticket list. Besides, like aa, so there's there's a lot of reasons, at least, in my head, that I think that micro economics keeps the stock up. And it's just a stronger.
00:21:33.519 --> 00:22:00.349
Alexander Winkler: ugly ticker names.
00:22:00.500 --> 00:22:06.099
Alexander Winkler: Yeah.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.070
Tommy Salerno: there was one the other week. It was called MF.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:13.108
Daniel Camozzo: Yeah.
00:22:13.349 --> 00:22:14.800
Daniel Camozzo: it's a collapse.
00:22:15.780 --> 00:22:16.690
Colby Warshel: Boeing.
00:22:18.219 --> 00:22:24.219
Daniel Camozzo: Yeah, there's there's some one of my other favorites is Race, which is Ferrari.
00:22:24.699 --> 00:22:33.150
Alexander Winkler: I'm a proud shareholder of Ferrari. I've been holding one share now for a few years, not a big deal
00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:44.130
Daniel Camozzo: as as a self respecting Italian. I have to. It's actually up. I bought it at like 200. It's at 300 now. So doing great.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:58.869
Lawrence obioma: It's actually a pretty consistent uptrend Ferrari, or whatever someone told me about it. And this thing is just straight going up.
00:22:58.949 --> 00:23:00.199
Tommy Salerno: Eli Lilly.
00:23:00.659 --> 00:23:26.269
Lawrence obioma: it's like it didn't react to it didn't react to 2020. But it didn't react in that bat of a way. And it just keeps going up right. And this is another example of something that might be correlated with the market, but still Strong has its own strength, is like when the market goes down. It doesn't go down that much, but when it goes up it goes up a lot I don't know is that I don't know what it let me look it up because I might be telling you guys the wrong thing.
00:23:26.590 --> 00:23:33.179
Colby Warshel: Yeah. Ll, that's ll, that's a fuck. Sorry.
00:23:33.610 --> 00:23:38.860
Lawrence obioma: is it? No, it's LLY yeah. LLY. Sorry.
00:23:39.690 --> 00:23:46.519
Lawrence obioma: Yeah. Girlfriend's dad worked for Eli Lilly. He just retired this year off of this move.
00:23:46.889 --> 00:23:49.099
Colby Warshel: Yeah, you're tired of it.
00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:51.690
Tommy Salerno: He was accumulating stock options.
00:23:52.010 --> 00:23:55.940
Daniel Camozzo: Yeah, nice. I have a friend who works there.
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.639
Lawrence obioma: I never know what they do. But I was like, wow! This is crazy.
00:23:59.809 --> 00:24:04.639
Colby Warshel: It's pharm pharmaceutical pharma.
00:24:04.719 --> 00:24:21.150
Lawrence obioma: The reason why they don't show like it doesn't show up for me is because I have, like the most liquid stocks and the data in our database like, I just look at the most liquid, and I think it's just not liquid enough to trade intraday. But this is a good example of opportunity that you can get from. Like if you you know. Hold.
00:24:21.369 --> 00:24:25.798
Alexander Winkler: yeah, although it's pretty expensive, too. So
00:24:26.150 --> 00:24:29.889
Lawrence obioma: yeah, now, it's so expensive. I mean, II just wouldn't touch it.
00:24:31.329 --> 00:24:46.549
Alexander Winkler: So this is our first time having 6 people on the podcast is kind of crazy monumental. Here. I don't know how I'm gonna make a thumbnail. I'm already yeah. Have fun with that, finding 6 pictures that look good. Oh, God! It was already miserable last time with 5 people. Uhhuh.
00:24:46.699 --> 00:24:48.230
Toby Dawson: SOXS.
00:24:48.298 --> 00:24:50.949
Alexander Winkler: Oh, there goes Toby again.
00:24:52.048 --> 00:24:55.259
Alexander Winkler: Is that Toby? Is that you that I think that
00:24:55.360 --> 00:24:56.480
Daniel Camozzo: now, me.
00:24:56.630 --> 00:24:58.230
Alexander Winkler: Amy?
00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:18.498
Alexander Winkler: So what are you guys doing with this summer training here in August, because I'll tell you what. Last week I was so disappointed with the actual. Every day I have like this little expected value where I type in like what my expected values today, based on what I'm seeing with the market trends are how I feel. It was like every day. I noticed I was putting like negative, and I rarely put negative.
00:25:18.619 --> 00:25:43.368
Alexander Winkler: and I was like, if if every dam walking to the market with a negative expected value. Why am I trading? So I was like, I think I'm gonna take the last week of August, basically off, which is this week. So I was checking the markets pre market to see if there was a positive expected value, like, let's say, 100% capper in the morning, and then I would trade it as long as I could, and get out before I get back my my money, which I've been doing a lot lately. So
00:25:43.369 --> 00:25:49.489
Alexander Winkler: that's kind of been my attitude. Hopefully, we get more momentum. What are you guys thinking here? How are you approaching this?
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:52.418
Daniel Camozzo: I think.
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.940
Tommy Salerno: well, yeah, definitely, definitely, a hard time. But I think this is a good example of
00:25:57.259 --> 00:26:00.000
Tommy Salerno: you know the positive of being
00:26:00.299 --> 00:26:18.728
Tommy Salerno: A discretionary check trader is that you can. You can read the expected value, and you're not taking the same level of share size every single day, you know. And now go. The downside is if it's automatic like on a day like last week, days like last week, you're taking your X amount of shares and your drawdown.
00:26:18.750 --> 00:26:29.089
Tommy Salerno: Obviously it's going to be bigger than you know, if it discretionary trader was able to read that and adjust their size accordingly. So I do agree with like.
00:26:29.619 --> 00:26:32.980
Tommy Salerno: what we were saying, last, podcast about
00:26:33.110 --> 00:26:40.568
Tommy Salerno: you know, just just, you know, if you have a positive, if you have a strategy that's making money just consistently.
00:26:40.630 --> 00:26:53.639
Tommy Salerno: punch that buy button for the shares that you've been doing. Maybe even increasing it over time. because of the the profitable strategy. However, the draw down.
00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:54.839
Tommy Salerno: you can
00:26:54.929 --> 00:27:08.949
Tommy Salerno: potentially limit that if you're able to factor in that extra variable, that discretionary traders have which is reading that market sentiment, to be able to maybe minimize that a little more. So you're kind of more at the higher end of your pnl curve.
00:27:09.730 --> 00:27:24.958
Lawrence obioma: II completely agree with that. The idea of like of even Algows like even to me. Don't get me wrong. All my outgoes. They don't trade it. They don't like. Today is a weekday. We none of our. I think one of our long strategies is in, and we just I will up for the day. But
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:33.420
Lawrence obioma: but yeah, reading reading when things can get really bad sometimes it's not it's not feature. But I will say, though
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:55.029
Lawrence obioma: I already like the the more there's levels to it, right. If you have an AI that can actually do that market analysis and send it to your outgo. You can. And we also do size based on condition for some conditions, and it improves our overall equity chart, no matter what. But I do, I do agree that it can be very difficult to like, identify
00:27:55.219 --> 00:28:01.078
Lawrence obioma: what that looks like. And it's it's sometimes it being a discussion trade. I think it's it's, you know, being human and being able to, just.
00:28:01.299 --> 00:28:06.630
Lawrence obioma: you know, feel if because, you know, the market is a huge. a
00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:26.139
Lawrence obioma: a combination of human emotions. Reacting to each other. You know, someone who says it's a complex systems con complex system. And so the thing about complex systems is you're never supposed to really completely understand them. You're supposed to just react to them and understand what you do, you see? And you you can, you know, at least put logic to.
00:28:26.159 --> 00:28:32.228
Lawrence obioma: So yeah, I think for computers, it's harder. It's but II think, down the road, though. Give it 1015 years.
00:28:32.349 --> 00:28:39.489
Lawrence obioma: I truly do believe people are gonna be doing a somewhat copy trading algo version of what we're doing, because.
00:28:39.589 --> 00:28:40.750
Lawrence obioma: honestly.
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.699
Lawrence obioma: you know, II think me and Alex talked about this like.
00:28:44.889 --> 00:29:08.309
Lawrence obioma: you know, when I used to play call of duty, and you know. At least you knew you were playing with humans like at least you knew you were playing against people who who are in same mindset, and I think that's the same thing with small Cap. That's why people gravitate to small Cap world is like you're playing with. More than likely you're not playing with huge, you know, 1 billion dollar outgoes who are, you know, because they don't care. They don't have. You don't have the liquidity for them to play with right. But
00:29:08.420 --> 00:29:14.319
Lawrence obioma: but if you play with, if if the thing about the market is that you can have
00:29:14.690 --> 00:29:40.839
Lawrence obioma: the, you know someone with an a bot like and like, and and all hacks. They can see everything they could do, anything they can. Then, you know, watch, read, auto, flow, and react to it, and and do it better than you and be, you know, first to that order, and it's kind of it's kind of shitty because the market is. It's not meant for it's not just made, for, you know, a discretionary trader to try. Be in it thriving anymore, like computing has. It's it's like a fair.
00:29:41.139 --> 00:30:05.278
Lawrence obioma: Go go ahead and do whatever you want. As, however, you make money, you can make money, and I think it's like down the road in the next 10 to 15 years. I think it was just people would just see like, I think that's where, like I should put more my time into. And II hope that that happens with, especially like bigger traders like fitness. We have, like millions in the bank, like I would invest more into like creating a way to automate everything. This is like
00:30:05.949 --> 00:30:08.349
Lawrence obioma: doing our discretionary end.
00:30:08.779 --> 00:30:21.679
Daniel Camozzo: I'm trying to. I. So I go back and forth with that, too, because, like, I found a decent amount of success with trading small caps. But it's very involved, as you guys know, and
00:30:22.199 --> 00:30:24.139
Daniel Camozzo: like, I guess I could say I'm
00:30:24.569 --> 00:30:34.349
Daniel Camozzo: semi-retired with the amount of time I put into the income that I make through trading small caps. But still I'd like to have something a little bit less hands on.
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:42.219
Daniel Camozzo: So I definitely think about I'll go trading or like even copy trading
00:30:42.269 --> 00:30:56.148
Daniel Camozzo: with Td. Or cause even through Td, you can link accounts and have the same trade execute on 2 different accounts as as a as far as I know.
00:30:56.509 --> 00:31:12.829
Daniel Camozzo: So I think about doing that like you can do that with just the trades you're doing on small caps, and it's a way that you could essentially size up. But like for a lot of these stocks, when I send a market order for 3, 4, 5,000 shares.
00:31:12.989 --> 00:31:25.259
Daniel Camozzo: They get slippage and they get filled in chunks. If I were sending a 2,000 share order across 2 or 3 or 4 accounts they'd get filled quickly, and I'd be able to execute. Well, so that's one thing that I think about
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.058
Daniel Camozzo: like copy trading. But then I'm also thinking about
00:31:29.329 --> 00:31:52.389
Daniel Camozzo: like longer term. I'm really interested to to start researching. I'll go trading, and you could even apply that to copy trading as well. No reason that you need to all go trade just in one account, I think. Why I was going with it is that I'm starting to realize there's no need for you to actually be the researcher, the developer, that everything there people who are giving out like
00:31:52.469 --> 00:31:57.798
Lawrence obioma: copy trading like there's a guy I should talk to him in his like chat all the time. He's like
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:04.400
Lawrence obioma: He's like the anti guru Guy. He does the training stuff on Youtube like sometimes.
00:32:04.460 --> 00:32:08.480
Lawrence obioma: Daniel. something.
00:32:08.750 --> 00:32:33.719
Lawrence obioma: If you look him up you'll find him. But but he he did a video where he bought like a a ninja trading major trader thing where he bought it from ago, and he did. He made like 1,000 bucks, but he paid so much fees and everything she was charging. I was like she was charging out the while. Zoom! I was like thanks. She she would have to have like, who's making money? Yeah, you would have to have a lot of money to really do what he's doing. But imagine if you did that like, if you
00:32:33.849 --> 00:32:58.639
Lawrence obioma: like. Kind of what Darwinx does what I the platform I told you guys about before, like where you can just pay for them to do that and is, is less of the hassle, because I truly do believe now that training is doing it's it's I was talking to someone about this with like she was. She was talking about wanting to be a nurse for forever like she loves being enough. She loves doing this, and I was like, what if someone just gave you like
00:32:58.739 --> 00:33:18.788
Lawrence obioma: 400 k. Right now? And you can. You can grow that up into the next, you know, in the next 10 to 5 years to like multi, 7, 8 figures, and you can use that money to give back to those people that you would be a nurse to on a database. Would you would rather do that, or would you, you know, obviously being like, no, but I really love being a nurse because of the. And I'm like, well.
00:33:19.289 --> 00:33:40.639
Lawrence obioma: think about it right. If you made that much money, you could just get all these people nurses, and you can, you know, screen them yourself and get them to have down like you could give more value by getting more growth in a in a more systematic way, instead of like fulfilling a sense of like pride. And I, the reason II brought it back is like trading because I thought about that with like I used to fill that. When I used to trade
00:33:40.639 --> 00:33:58.028
Lawrence obioma: I used to feel like the pride of trade cause II was a gamer. It's like you come in. You do your job, you do well, you're proud of yourself, right? But then you think you could have gotten from just doing that without having to do all that bullshit, and like being as aggressive like, you know, it's it's only takes about a few numbers for me to increase my risk.
00:33:58.029 --> 00:34:10.219
Lawrence obioma: I just have to change my and it's the same performance right? I still would get like, Danny. You said you're like down 17 if I if I put my risk right now to how much your you risk like that? 17, we would be up
00:34:10.380 --> 00:34:38.500
Lawrence obioma: 80% on our outdoors. And it could. That could be create. That could be even more. If you just don't care about your money like I've heard of, like 50% risk like backstroke out. And they get like 200. That's that's something that I've seen with a couple of the guys in where you're trading Manoli, who I've talked about. He took an account. We started trading at the same time in 2020 in the winter. He took a
00:34:38.500 --> 00:34:45.489
Daniel Camozzo: $2530,000 account. I don't know. He's made over 2 and a half, probably close to 3 million. Now, at this point.
00:34:45.489 --> 00:34:55.329
Daniel Camozzo: he was kind of forced into big share size and just like a lot of risk tolerance, and
00:34:55.690 --> 00:35:00.739
Daniel Camozzo: I think about that all the time, like I've grown my account really nicely this year.
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:14.089
Daniel Camozzo: but II don't want to take out of it at this point I do think about. At the end of this year I will withdraw from the account. Probably substantially. I'll take my account back down to a small account, and then.
00:35:14.279 --> 00:35:20.089
Daniel Camozzo: like, How's it gonna make me feel? I know that every single penny in the account is pure profit
00:35:20.130 --> 00:35:21.529
Daniel Camozzo: that I can risk.
00:35:21.889 --> 00:35:25.018
Daniel Camozzo: So it definitely makes me think about
00:35:25.069 --> 00:35:26.818
Daniel Camozzo: my trading in that way.
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:47.699
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, that's what I that's why I always think about, too like that's why the the whole thing I told like, Tommy. I was talking about. Where you when do you overall double your size is risk is like when you're just playing with pure profit. And you really ask to stable outside of training. I think it's worth worth it to take that as I don't know what you guys thought on that.
00:35:48.269 --> 00:36:01.518
Lawrence obioma: no, I think it's hard to know. Trust your profitability and trust your skill sets to do that cause. You know, some people take the risk, and they they make that money in a week if they really get lucky but
00:36:01.529 --> 00:36:03.918
Daniel Camozzo: profitable, then
00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:28.529
Daniel Camozzo: I think it just really depends on knowing and being honest about your best setups and your best trades, and the state of the market right now, like right now is probably not the best time to be hitting all the moves hard. We've had like one move a day that have called, that has called for hitting with big size or being aggressive on it, and that's cool. But I think it just depends on timing, and especially knowing what
00:36:28.779 --> 00:36:36.679
Daniel Camozzo: a stock looks like when it's moving in a way that is that typically makes you a lot of money compared with the risk on it.
00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:43.750
Lawrence obioma: Well, when when did you guys stop billing because I know when I started feeling like I was really set to like trade
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:51.088
Lawrence obioma: and I was trading. I remember I was trading about $150 like that's what I was expecting to make. And then I was losing
00:36:51.210 --> 00:37:08.710
Lawrence obioma: anywhere from there. I guess maybe a little bit more depending, because I think we we allow risk to go as far as we can if we, as long as we're very consistent with our profit. At least lately. But like, when did you guys start feeling like, okay, things are starting to click a little bit more. And you started putting almost size. Was it like a year in, or
00:37:08.900 --> 00:37:13.578
Lawrence obioma: or did you like? Are you still in that? I guess, like sometimes we when it comes to sizing.
00:37:14.630 --> 00:37:30.230
Daniel Camozzo: I've gone through phases. I can talk about it briefly before you guys. If you want. But I've gone through phases like the first year. Obviously I was learning and it. It was kind of quick for me. I found profitability in 6 months, which is not
00:37:30.259 --> 00:37:31.809
Daniel Camozzo: totally typical.
00:37:31.940 --> 00:37:43.539
Daniel Camozzo: And then basically, at the 12 month period. And it was also because it was a really hot market. It was winter of 2021, and basically everything was going straight up.
00:37:43.579 --> 00:37:46.739
Daniel Camozzo: So yeah, I
00:37:46.989 --> 00:38:08.038
Daniel Camozzo: I I made twice as much my second year as the first year, and then the third year, which was last year, I made like practically nothing, because I had a lot of bad habits from 2021, from things just going straight up. And you didn't really have to be too careful. Things weren't very punishing at all, whereas last year they they completely were
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:15.650
Daniel Camozzo: and so now this year I've corrected a lot of the mistakes from last year, and I've started sizing up, and
00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:21.849
Daniel Camozzo: almost always, whenever I'm able to, I cut my losses for like a 2 or 3 cent loss.
00:38:21.909 --> 00:38:39.360
Daniel Camozzo: just just if I get into a position, and it doesn't do what I think it was going to really quickly. I'll just get right out and cut it for a tiny loss. So doing that with bigger share size. When I get the right move, which is about 50% of the time, it's like a 10 to one risk reward.
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:50.589
Daniel Camozzo: reward, risk versus having to cut it, which usually I'll cut a trade 2, 3 times or so before I hit that win, which is usually like 5 to 10 x.
00:38:50.949 --> 00:38:57.878
Daniel Camozzo: So that so finally, in my third year, I've started to really build actual confidence with what I'm doing.
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:08.248
Alexander Winkler: I get. I could probably add to that right away, where I think we had a similar experience, except I was trading some things before so like in 2,019
00:39:08.420 --> 00:39:18.179
Alexander Winkler: in like November, I started trading small caps. and within 6 months, so like in the beginning next year, summer well, not even it was like spring.
00:39:18.360 --> 00:39:39.980
Alexander Winkler: I just switched from my cash account, funded a fully or made a fully funded margin account over 25 K. And then it was like every month I made more than the month before we were also into into that bull market. It was like easier, easier to trade, and you can get more and more aggressive. So I just had an ex like I. My chart is literally exponential.
00:39:39.980 --> 00:39:54.559
Alexander Winkler: And then exactly what Danny said, like, you know, a lot of the bad habits, you learned, started kind of hurting you, and I had like 6 months of almost straight consolidation where I didn't really make more money, and I'm breaking out of that
00:39:55.349 --> 00:40:05.650
Alexander Winkler: pretty nicely. But I'm not on that second nice big front side, like II think Danny is. I think Danny's slang especially 2023 right now.
00:40:05.779 --> 00:40:21.909
Alexander Winkler: and I'm still. I'm still waiting for for that to happen. But I'm not really rushing it. I was trying a lot of different strategies, especially in this year, which was make me trip over myself. But I was gonna ask, I was, gonna say, like, what do you think like.
00:40:22.150 --> 00:40:24.618
Lawrence obioma: get you to that point of of
00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:29.929
Lawrence obioma: cause right now we're in a this month. We're in a consolidation month, and I know why.
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:48.688
Lawrence obioma: The market is down. We have a lot of long strategies, very few short strategies, and not not short strategies that take advantage of what's going on, and I always try to figure out like on a discretionary level. Especially. You've been doing that well, like like kind of like like, you know, some traders right now who I see struggling. I'm just like, you know, you've been doing so well for like 10 years will happen
00:40:48.699 --> 00:40:51.829
Lawrence obioma: so like I try to figure out what is going through
00:40:52.269 --> 00:41:12.318
Lawrence obioma: and everyone else can still go on, because I'm trying to figure out kind of get a sense of like where people felt profitability from when they did it. But like Alex, what do you think happened there? Besides, I guess you're saying that you were just trying a bunch of strategies and that kind of screwed you over. Yeah, II was trying to hold a lot of moves longer and with small caps. I just found it really difficult to do in the end.
00:41:12.429 --> 00:41:35.818
Alexander Winkler: Ii ended up tripping over myself. And this is kind of funny, because when I first started trading small caps. I used to always say, like, you know, I'd be up 5%, and then I close it for a 2, 3 loss. And there was nothing more frustrating than that. And that's when I really started focusing on basics. And I would just, you know, just 3 small basits of like 2, 3% trades. That's almost a 10% day right there, based on your average size. And that's pretty good.
00:41:35.940 --> 00:42:00.368
Alexander Winkler: So you know, if you're trading with 5,000 average size 10 day. That's a $500 day. So then, all you have to do is really scale and take some more basics, because I feel like those are pretty predictable. But then, obviously, sometimes you're like, Oh, I want that 200 winner. But I've noticed that is very, very tough, because you just don't know which ticker it is. And you're gonna you're gonna end up taking like a dozen plus paper cuts before you have that big winner.
00:42:00.369 --> 00:42:15.619
Alexander Winkler: and you'll never. And that big winner will probably not pay for all those paper cuts, because you'll probably end up cutting the winner if the big winner too big, because you just never know if it's going to be a hundred percent winner or 1,000% winner. And if it is a thousand percent winner. I guarantee you you won't sell it at 1,000. So
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:23.829
Alexander Winkler: I've kind of gone back to my classic Og strategy and then boom everything like the first month I focused on just doing what I know works
00:42:23.849 --> 00:42:42.360
Alexander Winkler: everything picked up again. And then I was like ready to size. And then we hit the summer low. So it was like I had like 2 months of like decent profit this year, and then it got nasty again. But yeah, it took me about 6 months to become profitable, and then it was an exponential rise, and then 2,021 was a little bit choppy for me
00:42:42.730 --> 00:42:49.549
Alexander Winkler: and then 2023 has been so far my worst year. Actually, because I've been trying all these different things.
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:50.839
Alexander Winkler: Yeah.
00:42:50.969 --> 00:42:52.110
Lawrence obioma: yeah, okay.
00:42:52.279 --> 00:43:07.378
Lawrence obioma: yeah. Well, yeah. I know Kobe's like more in the figuring it out stage. So actually, probably like, what's your mindset going in? Especially with risk? Because I feel like II said this last time? I think so. But like I noticed just
00:43:07.429 --> 00:43:12.389
Lawrence obioma: you know the reason why those people who take those 50% drawdowns do so well.
00:43:12.429 --> 00:43:18.199
Lawrence obioma: it's because they they treat it like Loki, like a like a like a casino.
00:43:18.210 --> 00:43:24.009
Lawrence obioma: And they believe. And the problem, the good thing is that extremes can get you far.
00:43:24.130 --> 00:43:46.610
Lawrence obioma: especially if you learn how to fix the issue midway, because you have a lot of cushion to play with. Like kind of like what Mars is my Matt as is doing right now? He has a lot he has 10 million to play with till he figured out what what's the issue? 5 million he has half of that is probably in taxes. But and whatever else
00:43:46.650 --> 00:43:49.748
Lawrence obioma: but yeah, a couple in his house.
00:43:50.089 --> 00:43:54.079
Lawrence obioma: And and he could have made mistakes all 10 years, and then figured it out now and
00:43:54.139 --> 00:44:05.069
Lawrence obioma: whatever. But like what's I know beginning? It's it's kind of hard, because I remember that I think that's kind of why I decided to stop doing that because I just like, and I feel like II kind of feel bad about that, because I feel like
00:44:05.099 --> 00:44:25.599
Lawrence obioma: I don't know what the I don't know what the hustle looks like, but I don't know what that would have looked like this year for me, cause I stopped trading, you know, in February. I just haven't touched. I haven't even taken a I take me. I'll take a trade for the computer if I something glitches happen. But in touch, I didn't even think about the trade. So yeah.
00:44:26.739 --> 00:44:29.889
Colby Warshel: I mean for for me, honestly, I feel like
00:44:30.190 --> 00:44:32.779
Colby Warshel: when I traded small caps. It took me
00:44:33.420 --> 00:44:47.288
Colby Warshel: like a little over a year, and like 3 months to get my first like 3 consecutive green months in a row. And then, right when that happened, that was like the end of the Bull Run, where everything just went up every day, and then for 3 months straight.
00:44:47.730 --> 00:44:52.869
Colby Warshel: I think it was from September to like January or February of 2022
00:44:52.940 --> 00:45:03.088
Colby Warshel: the small caps there was like nothing above 40% ever. So I was just bored of shit. And I was like, what do I do? I have a Pdt account. I can take huge size on these large caps. So why don't I try to trade them?
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:10.819
Colby Warshel: Then I try to trade in video. And then I come with all these strategies on video. It works for a month. I size up, lose it all.
00:45:10.860 --> 00:45:26.949
Colby Warshel: Then another month that goes by. I change my strategy. I add 2 more variables. It works for 2 months. Size up, lose it all, and then I'll be like, Oh, I have too many variables. Let me break it back down to to the simple ones do. That doesn't work at all for couple of months.
00:45:26.949 --> 00:45:55.298
Colby Warshel: Then I trade the spy, and it works for a little bit, and it feels better than Nvidia, because the volatility is just so like similar every single day, which is the trap of futures and trading the spy because you're like. Oh, it moves every day. But then you realize, yeah, every fucking person in the entire world is thinking the same shit as you. And you're trading against fucking Warren Buffett. Every rich fucker in the entire planet is creating the spy. So and then I did that, for I'm still doing that, for
00:45:55.299 --> 00:45:57.440
I think it's been a little over a year.
00:45:57.549 --> 00:46:03.588
Colby Warshel: And yeah, like a year. And actually, it's been like a year and a half almost of metrating the spy. And that went from
00:46:06.130 --> 00:46:09.130
Colby Warshel: I mean, I started trading
00:46:09.529 --> 00:46:15.798
Colby Warshel: I tried to only trade continuation at first, because you know, trust the trend, the trend is your friend all that shit that cliche stuff.
00:46:16.119 --> 00:46:29.338
Lawrence obioma: and then I just suck at that. I had a 30% win rate, even though the trend is my friend. Well how the fuck you got a 30% win rate if trend is your fucking friend.
00:46:29.690 --> 00:46:43.150
Colby Warshel: and then I then I'm like, Well, I love reversal. So I should just really hone in on that. So I go from having, like 3 variables for reversals, doing the same thing I did with Nvidia back in the day works for a little bit. Size up, lose it all.
00:46:43.239 --> 00:47:06.759
Colby Warshel: do it again, do it again. And now I'm back to the point I like. 2 months ago I probably had, like 8 variables, where at every point in the day I would constantly be updating them in like an excel spreadsheet, saying, okay, it's 1030. The R. Vol. Is point 4. That's good for volatility. If we have high volatility and we're trending down the day, what's the next level of liquidity that we should hit whatever do that have like 8 variables. And now I'm back down to like
00:47:06.809 --> 00:47:15.778
Colby Warshel: 2 that are extremely important. If these 2 don't exist. I don't take the trade at all, and then a third one, where, if that's there, then I can size up more
00:47:16.139 --> 00:47:18.860
Colby Warshel: and that's what I'm doing right now. And I've literally taken
00:47:21.750 --> 00:47:27.579
Colby Warshel: like 6 trades in the last, like 3 weeks, because my variables are so tight. So
00:47:27.589 --> 00:47:34.398
Lawrence obioma: I was, gonna I was gonna say, like that. To be honest, sorry to cut you off. But that actually is.
00:47:34.569 --> 00:47:44.159
Lawrence obioma: that's actually why you need to do in these markets unless you're like, unless you have the infrastructure to do really good high frequency training. Like most of these people I know who do hours.
00:47:44.549 --> 00:47:50.049
Lawrence obioma: they treat them very wide timeframes like I'm I'm one of the few people I know.
00:47:50.409 --> 00:48:02.768
Lawrence obioma: And people, some of these people say, is it possible? But I trade. I have some of my outdoors that trade on 5 min timeframe like they look on the time frame minutes, and that's the like small sense, because I think I also traded those timeframes. And II know how to.
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:18.478
Lawrence obioma: And I it's it's very frustrating, because there's a lot of noise there, but II find I found low and II wanted to frequency. I wanted more frequency over a certain time period to get more trades, and I figured out what works more. But the biggest thing is to find the extremes like you need to find
00:48:18.509 --> 00:48:22.318
Lawrence obioma: where at least, if you want to be, you know, profitable on a, on a.
00:48:23.009 --> 00:48:43.239
Lawrence obioma: on a non high frequency training sense. It's better to find. Ext you can. You can. Do, you know, very high frequency type trade. I'm actually dealing with that right now, because I'm I'm working on hft type. Idea. I'm II keep the code there, and I keep adding to it, and it fails, and I keep adding to it just to see what's
00:48:43.250 --> 00:48:55.188
Lawrence obioma: what's happening. But it's good. It lets me know how markets react and that's another thing. I think we're even just doing this on the I guess it's a lot more like my, II was selling. Alex is like the market closes for you guys. At whatever time
00:48:55.309 --> 00:49:11.509
Lawrence obioma: I replay it. Whenever I feel like it, I get to trade. I get to do all your trades again if I want to, tomorrow or today. So I get to see my trade look like how they react to certain things. And I just know it. Notice from, like a lot of my strategies, that they find the extremes.
00:49:11.619 --> 00:49:14.058
Lawrence obioma: Finding these streams is way better than
00:49:14.089 --> 00:49:39.029
Lawrence obioma: than trying to trade it every other day. Because I you know those people who also that you you say, trade the spy every day, that's understand. Sometimes they're just closing positions, like. Sometimes they held positions over over like 2 days, and they're just need they just need to close positions. But because they're slippage is like, maybe a dollar. They need to take them 5 min to close that position completely, and they do it in block all this. So you know.
00:49:39.089 --> 00:50:01.489
Lawrence obioma: So so it's it's very hard, though, like, I say, it's complex systems that you just try to understand as much as you can, but the intricacies of it is so difficult that that you have to try your best to just understand the extremes of what you can find and what is like, because when you know, something has dropped down 60, you know, like, let's say, a stock, you know. Drop 60 bounces. If it bounces to the high short it
00:50:01.489 --> 00:50:22.708
Lawrence obioma: it is not coming back up like, you know, and that's not, I'm saying, lost caps like a lost gap, right like a lost. Most of these large caps they, when they when they drop like that, people buy it. But after a little while they start to come back down again. And docs, it's funny cause Docs has a a opposite strategy of like buying the dips on these lost caps when they drop down. 40, 60. But yeah, but that's over a few days, because they tend to bounce back up
00:50:22.710 --> 00:50:39.610
Lawrence obioma: because we have a strategy that trades midday. And it looks for really extreme. That's the one that I showed you guys the one that with the equity chart on Zoom really well is that it's it looks for extreme highs on really, really big stocks.
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:42.650
Lawrence obioma: So if you do that on something like Baba that's really weak.
00:50:42.750 --> 00:51:03.250
Lawrence obioma: You you can show it, but be careful, because Boba also does this like whole thing with spikes. But like that's not me giving advice on how to trade. But I'm saying the extremes can be really useful because anything can work right. It's really how you structure your anything. But I just found that being trying to find the extremes of anything and trying to see if that works better, it's like
00:51:03.500 --> 00:51:08.708
Lawrence obioma: it's a smaller way to go about it. But I don't know. You know you guys trade low flow
00:51:08.819 --> 00:51:15.798
Alexander Winkler: a little bit of Colby's when he was Lance Breitst times.
00:51:16.139 --> 00:51:22.969
Colby Warshel: what? What broken slop machine, I mean, that's kind of what Lawrence is talking about. Right? You you look for the
00:51:23.710 --> 00:51:26.679
Alexander Winkler: you know the move, that is, is.
00:51:26.699 --> 00:51:29.668
Alexander Winkler: it gives you that high expected value because it's
00:51:29.759 --> 00:51:50.989
Lawrence obioma: it only comes once in a while, and that's what makes the spy is trading that every day so hard. And in in a sense, like when you create these small casts, we're basically just trading the one stock that is broken that day. You know, some of those times where a short seller is just covering a position that he has to overlong.
00:51:52.110 --> 00:52:12.188
Colby Warshel: Sorry I was. Just gonna say, that's why I think that if you do trade the spy, or something like that, like it, might take you literally 10 times as long to get good than small caps, because small caps. You're literally trading against high school kids or some whale, and you literally don't. You don't need to have some crazy strategy that's like.
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:13.369
Colby Warshel: you know.
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:41.389
Colby Warshel: 15 variables exist like you can just bull flag breakout, and there's a fucked on a volume period. That's the strap that's the setup. You know what I mean, whatever, whereas with the spy there's fucking 50 breakouts a day, but they're one penny, you know. They break out by one tick, and they flush 10 points. And then, you know, it's not that your competition is so much smarter than you sounds like a real like. It's so crazy to see the participants
00:52:41.389 --> 00:53:02.868
Lawrence obioma: like they don't speak the same language like if they go to what the other day. What are you guys doing over here? But money can be made in any, in every sense, I think you said is best like you know you said options is a good way to change any large cap into a penny stock do the same thing if you
00:53:03.009 --> 00:53:12.018
Lawrence obioma: well, yeah, actually, you know, we, I guess we Miss Toby and Tommy, cause I'm I'm still curious and like when you guys figured out profitability and like when it's stale.
00:53:12.829 --> 00:53:14.980
Lawrence obioma: or if it has still, I don't know.
00:53:16.549 --> 00:53:28.898
Tommy Salerno: I found profitability, probably a little after one year that I started. I started the beginning of 2020, so pretty much the start of the whole Bull Run.
00:53:28.929 --> 00:53:35.610
Tommy Salerno: but I was too inexperienced. I really capitalize it on it. So I was just kind of copy trading Ross Cameron.
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:46.358
Tommy Salerno: and literally, as soon as they hit by I would hit, buy as soon as I would call, and I would still be like 20 s. Bind him, and I would he would have a green trade, and I would have a fat red trade.
00:53:46.500 --> 00:53:52.808
Tommy Salerno: Eventually I blow because you're buying the shares that he's selling. Yeah. Yeah. So I fell into that trap
00:53:53.130 --> 00:53:57.778
Tommy Salerno: blew out, blew up my small cash account for about
00:53:57.819 --> 00:53:59.789
00:54:00.659 --> 00:54:10.278
Tommy Salerno: Then from there I started another cash account, and just kind of just trading one share, one share, one share, just getting my repetitions in.
00:54:10.529 --> 00:54:19.159
Tommy Salerno: And eventually, I started to, you know, make just a few cents a day, and just been sizing up from there. and I'd say that came about
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:26.748
Tommy Salerno: 12 between 12 and 14 months of doing that consistently every single day, not missing one day.
00:54:26.860 --> 00:54:37.409
Tommy Salerno: So I wasn't really trading to make money the first year, or just trading, just to get, you know. Find my consistency. Then from there just kind of slowly increasing my share size.
00:54:38.009 --> 00:54:55.128
Tommy Salerno: I'd say, about around like a year and a half. I started having like $300 days, and I was like through the moon. I was like, how the hell am I making? $300 and 15 min like the most money I've ever made in that amount of time, and I went ahead and just walked into my job and quit.
00:54:55.670 --> 00:54:58.019
Tommy Salerno: I walked into my job and quit
00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:19.349
Tommy Salerno: Gap and go set up, broke through pre-market high. I made 350, and like 5, 10 min went into my job. Quit back.
00:55:19.449 --> 00:55:45.949
Tommy Salerno: and really good. I was doing so good for about 6 months I was making a nice one KA week and then about 6 months. In about maybe November or so, the market got really really cold the first cold stretch we've been in since I started, so I didn't really know what you know I was getting into. I was. I was like every single day. There should be a stock that goes 300 right?
00:55:46.059 --> 00:55:56.568
Tommy Salerno: And you know, eventually that stopped happening. I started to kinda panic a little bit. I was like, Oh, my God, I can't make money anymore. I can't make money.
00:55:56.739 --> 00:56:03.860
Tommy Salerno: And yeah, then I just stopped making money started losing money, and eventually I had to go back.
00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:09.259
Tommy Salerno: find some work. So after about 6 months
00:56:09.889 --> 00:56:21.139
Tommy Salerno: I was holding women's clothes at the Macy's women's department for $15 an hour. Not doing that anymore. But you know there's definitely a big
00:56:21.569 --> 00:56:36.558
Tommy Salerno: kind of wake up call and what I'm getting myself into, and that it that success is not, as you know, linear as I thought it would be thought maybe after the $300 day I'd be scaling it to 5, to 1,000 to 3,000.
00:56:36.579 --> 00:56:48.778
Tommy Salerno: But it just did not happen in that sort of linear way. So it kinda had a setback there. Still working kind of like an hourly job. Not at Macy's. Definitely a better situation. I'm in right now.
00:56:48.989 --> 00:56:53.150
Tommy Salerno: you know, making, you know decent a decent wage work from home
00:56:53.199 --> 00:57:11.139
Tommy Salerno: outside of my trading hours. So that's kind of my situation now, still profitable every single month knock on wood. So I still have my edge. That's still working. But I'm kind of just waiting for the market to kind of give some better opportunity for me to kinda push my share size again
00:57:11.349 --> 00:57:15.929
Tommy Salerno: as of right now. It's kinda hot, cold, hot, and cold. So
00:57:16.319 --> 00:57:23.389
Tommy Salerno: kinda just been treading water. I guess you could say. but still profitable at the end of the month.
00:57:23.829 --> 00:57:26.358
Daniel Camozzo: Kind of interesting that's a good place to be.
00:57:26.500 --> 00:57:47.628
Lawrence obioma: I would even say, like, you have a work from home job that you don't mind too much, and it pays decently like, even if you start crushing in the market, there's no reason to stop doing that because it's and I've all had opportunities like more opportunities to do other things that could pay more. And they're trying to get me to do hybrid
00:57:47.839 --> 00:57:49.909
Lawrence obioma: and honestly.
00:57:50.029 --> 00:58:04.159
Lawrence obioma: right now, what I'm doing is I'm I'm I'm investing in myself in my long term future, especially when I just stack up bread and just like, honestly I don't. The the thing about me is, I really don't need to. II could just have people give me money or let me all want to just
00:58:04.469 --> 00:58:07.650
Lawrence obioma: create an account that I could, you know, use to trade
00:58:08.299 --> 00:58:21.089
Lawrence obioma: but but I'm more focused, I think, most right now. I'm focused on on, you know, really making sure I'm doing everything right. Maybe I'm building the tools right because my 1 one of my things, one thing my boss used to say is that
00:58:21.309 --> 00:58:47.809
Lawrence obioma: my old boss used to say, you you want to be as undeniable as possible like you don't want to be just, you know, another person that like, if, for example, let's say, if I was just a discretionary and I didn't have like a good track record like, maybe I only had like, 6 months old. Yeah, like, I couldn't walk up to someone, say, Give me a money right? But if, like, I feel like as being an outgo is like the most statistical way that I can at least prove something to someone on a consistent basis, and tell them how the process works and give them trust.
00:58:47.829 --> 00:58:58.900
Lawrence obioma: So II think my goal is like in the next year and a half of year from now to be like super undeniable and just be like, Okay, now, I can really take, you know, if I wanna work for
00:58:59.059 --> 00:59:10.809
Lawrence obioma: I don't know if I wanna work for bank, maybe like a hedge fund or something. Yeah. But I wanna do that myself. Yeah, if I wanna just keep doing what I'm doing that yeah, I could do as like, just make sure you're you're good enough to not have to
00:59:10.940 --> 00:59:21.099
Lawrence obioma: have to look. you know. worry about what's gonna happen next. And I think that is is Gary a little bit being discussion because you guys are all in like different journeys
00:59:21.120 --> 00:59:38.419
Lawrence obioma: like, that's this isn't first off. This is an amazing cast. Just wanna say, like, actually, you guys are all like in different stages of journey that you guys almost trade the same thing. So it's like, it's because Danny's like sizing up from what I'm saying in this, in this shitty market like it sounds like you're sizing up in this
00:59:38.719 --> 00:59:41.519
Lawrence obioma: ish, you know, situation, whereas everyone is like
00:59:41.610 --> 01:00:03.849
Lawrence obioma: taking it, taking it as it goes. And it's like it's good to see like the mindset of like. Well, if you really wanted to. You could be a Danny if you trusted yourself. But it's like I do. You have the Danny, and then it's like, and that's why it's like, it's interesting to see it from a from a personal level. Because also, I do think your your income, your how much money you saved. And all of that is is big, too, because I know for fact that
01:00:03.969 --> 01:00:10.648
Lawrence obioma: I couldn't do. Take some of the risks that I feel comfortable taking right now if I didn't have like some money saved up.
01:00:10.849 --> 01:00:22.499
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, it takes a while.
01:00:22.530 --> 01:00:33.249
Lawrence obioma: I feel like I put my money in spy. I don't feel I don't feel like I'm I'm thinking about. It's like an investment into my trading versus. If you, if you feel money to live off of it's
01:00:33.629 --> 01:00:37.339
Lawrence obioma: kind of a whole thing. Oh, I feel like.
01:00:37.389 --> 01:00:41.119
Alexander Winkler: that's where the mistakes come from once. You're thinking about rent.
01:00:41.480 --> 01:01:04.169
Daniel Camozzo: And yeah. yeah, that's that's why I have 2 other main sources of income. Happily, and luckily, trading has become a me by far the main source of income this year at least, and II expect it to continue that way, but you know you can't count on it. I can only try to do better than I did the day before. Try to
01:01:04.249 --> 01:01:15.999
Daniel Camozzo: correct the mistakes I was making last month last week last year, you know all of that. I am continually trying to size up, but really trying to be careful about how I'm doing it.
01:01:16.059 --> 01:01:30.068
Daniel Camozzo: Like I said earlier, just try trying to recognize what are the stocks that move, that the way that they move. I typically make the most money on them. Size up on those be aggressive. Anything else is honestly not worth trading.
01:01:30.179 --> 01:01:37.469
Daniel Camozzo: that's my approach to the choppy market, and the first 2 weeks of August
01:01:37.509 --> 01:01:40.088
Daniel Camozzo: were really difficult, because we came from
01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:51.388
Daniel Camozzo: a full 7 months of the year that really rewarded me for trading exactly like I did. And then it was basically a full dead stop. And so I had a bit of a draw down. I was
01:01:51.499 --> 01:01:53.809
Daniel Camozzo: before today down like
01:01:54.610 --> 01:02:10.089
Daniel Camozzo: 5,000 on the month, which is a really pretty fairly small pull back, considering how the first 7 months of the year went But at the same time one of the things that I really like that Lance Brightstein says and talks about is
01:02:10.249 --> 01:02:15.459
Daniel Camozzo: like you have to have some sense of urgency. The market is always going to be here for you, but
01:02:15.769 --> 01:02:27.370
Daniel Camozzo: you have to have the sense of urgency to correct the mistakes that you're making, and to to size better into the best trades that you're taking, and to develop that edge constantly and
01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:39.379
Daniel Camozzo: like, even if you've been profitable for 5 or 10 years or so. The market goes through cycles that you know AI is happening right now. There's all kinds of Algos and stuff that we've we've never seen before that we have to adapt to.
01:02:39.629 --> 01:02:50.150
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I agree with that. And you know, the biggest, the biggest thing II worried about even. I think that's why I decided to just run to the outgo door was because I was like.
01:02:50.280 --> 01:03:02.808
Lawrence obioma: Well, I don't wanna be in a position. II actually that's why I said, me and my goal used to use Matt, as as like our case, study of like this is what it could look like where you could be profitable for 9 years and have
01:03:02.860 --> 01:03:14.449
Lawrence obioma: 2 losing years consist back to back right years, not months. Right? So it makes you think like you know. How can you try your best to to mitigate your your
01:03:14.579 --> 01:03:21.289
Lawrence obioma: yourself to your equity, like how you can, you know, destroy your equity, or or potentially, you know.
01:03:21.519 --> 01:03:41.568
Lawrence obioma: hamper it for a little while, and I think it was just my way. That was my way of saying, yes, this is how I'm gonna do it. I don't think it's been the right way, I think, you know, like I said, love discussion or trade is performed really well. But I am curious, though, like when you guys free, because I remember this when I, when I used to train in the market, was so dead, especially the small Cap market. I think it was the time that Tommy was talking about like
01:03:41.679 --> 01:04:01.360
Lawrence obioma: It was right after 2020. It was like. I remember, even relentless. 2021, I think, right after that was was posting everything like it was the beginning of the year, or whatever it was like from January to March. Just nothing. And I was like, I said.
01:04:01.530 --> 01:04:17.318
Lawrence obioma: I can do this. And so I started looking at like small large caps, and like, What is this? What? At that time I didn't have a Pdt account. But I was like, what do these things do you know like, how do they react like what goes through, you guys, especially when you have like a dead market like that. Do you like stop thinking? Okay.
01:04:17.339 --> 01:04:18.509
Lawrence obioma: I need to
01:04:19.669 --> 01:04:23.639
Lawrence obioma: take some of this money to spy or like. What's the?
01:04:23.709 --> 01:04:38.160
Alexander Winkler: I think I think my old self would have been really nervous like before I was profitable. I don't know. I think I would have been freaking out right now, because it's like your dreams are being shattered, and you don't want to wait any longer, but once you're profitable, and I'm not like crazy, crazy, profitable, like I hadn't hit my 1 million, that
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:44.990
Alexander Winkler: you know. I haven't even hit my half 1 million yet, although I hope I will at 1 point pretty soon. But right.
01:04:45.820 --> 01:05:10.629
Alexander Winkler: you know, a lot of funds break up like long term capital management, you know, that's that was an alga fund, and it blew up to because they're basically mean reversion. And then they couldn't handle this stock collapse in the 9 the.com bubble. There's a really good book on it. II think it's called more money than God, and it goes through several several large funds, but like for me, when I have this situation where the market is not good right now, expected value is read.
01:05:10.749 --> 01:05:29.709
Alexander Winkler: I now look at it as an amazing time to work on other things like this week. I've been getting so much done because I haven't been looking at this training screen for 4 HI mean, it's only been now 2 days. I feel like I've been like, you know, doing all those things I've been wanting to do, working on my strategy book a little bit
01:05:29.910 --> 01:05:58.150
Lawrence obioma: where I'm just kind of writing down all everything and organizing it working on Trade journal a lot more watching a lot of Youtube videos that I've been having on my playlist. Just kind of like, you know what I'm gonna put all this time into like doing everything else I've been wanting to do. It sounds like you guys are just creating or you're at least creating a new source of income outside of the market, like you'll, you'll try to think, how can I put my effort into something that could give me value outside of?
01:05:58.150 --> 01:06:12.449
Alexander Winkler: Yeah. But it's it's also a lot of self discovery and self exploration. I've been also spending a lot more time at the Park, working out a little bit longer. So it's it's more just like waiting for the market to be good, because I know most of the time I make most of my money
01:06:12.450 --> 01:06:36.120
Alexander Winkler: in like a fairly small period of time. It's the classic 80 20 principle, right where most of most your income is gonna come from a very small period of trading. And it's probably not gonna be in July and August, most likely not based on definitely. Not so I don't mind taking off right now. A little more. July was the biggest. It was like.
01:06:36.120 --> 01:06:52.150
Alexander Winkler: Yeah, I mean, if if you have, I mean, everyone's strategy is going to be different for me. You know, I need momentum. I need small caps to be ripping. So if if you're more of like a large cap, maybe especially July was just a beautiful
01:06:52.440 --> 01:07:17.249
Alexander Winkler: front side trend in the market, so I could see some funds or some outlaws doing really well right now. But for me personally, this is like horrendous conditions. It's like going to the beach and trying to surf. And it's flat, you know, like best case every day, bit by shark. There's no upside. Yeah. If you're not comfortable
01:07:17.599 --> 01:07:44.558
Lawrence obioma: anytime. I get up to 2 k, one k, 2 k, it's just like, okay, good. We're at least keeping base, you know, base levels.
01:07:44.559 --> 01:08:08.599
Lawrence obioma: And it's just based off how much I size. Right? And so. But but when it now that we're down just like all right, well, I'm just working on new strategies that, take it. Take take advantage of these new conditions, all these conditions missing out like on this new, you know, breakdown. All these lost caps are breaking now. So I'm creating new strategies that really take advantage of breakdowns. And then that is me kind of
01:08:09.129 --> 01:08:10.798
Lawrence obioma: I guess that's my
01:08:10.820 --> 01:08:18.359
Lawrence obioma: new next source of income cause. Each strategy is its own is on correlated so that each source of income.
01:08:18.470 --> 01:08:26.629
Alexander Winkler: Yeah, there's there's 2 2 things you can kind of do right work on new strategies, which I was kind of doing in Q. One at a really bad time. For some reason or
01:08:27.200 --> 01:08:56.600
Alexander Winkler: option, 2 is like, you know. Trading is like riding a bike, you know, but you don't need to ride your bike every day. But when you do, you have this strategy, and you have the skill set, so I feel like it's for me. It's a little bit like riding a bike. Once I see the market picking up. I won't have all these bad habits of over trading in in the summertime, because that's happened to me before where the market started picking up, and I started not trusting any moves, cause I just did 3. No, it was like 6 months. It was like this, really bad long 2022. And I didn't trust any move that pop, because I just learned the worst habits.
01:08:56.600 --> 01:08:57.960
Alexander Winkler: So
01:08:58.210 --> 01:09:04.070
Alexander Winkler: to me, it's like I wanna step back a little bit. Not too much cause. I don't want to be rusty, but
01:09:04.240 --> 01:09:06.319
Alexander Winkler: really being conscious of the market.
01:09:06.440 --> 01:09:11.650
Lawrence obioma: So like, I know, Colby was doing the the AV,
01:09:11.980 --> 01:09:21.360
Lawrence obioma: does that feel like, yeah, that's like another great way to do it. Because I'm I'm considering doing stuff like that, even with trading, like, you know, like, I know, some people who wanna
01:09:21.400 --> 01:09:46.759
Lawrence obioma: I had a friend who wanted to do something with me trading wise, and it's like for me. It's like, though, is outside of what I do like, how I make my money on the trades in it individually, it's still like an outside source of income, because that would not be that I would get paid for that on a regular basis, right? But like, yeah, something like like with the with what Kobe is doing with the Airbnb, which is like, I'll I'm curious to know how that's still going, and how it, how it feels to like, have that.
01:09:46.940 --> 01:09:50.220
Lawrence obioma: how how it feels to have that on the about while, you know. Kind of.
01:09:50.310 --> 01:09:57.100
Lawrence obioma: you know. Learn up and figure out. You know what your day to day training, especially with how even frequent you've been trading
01:09:57.380 --> 01:10:13.579
Colby Warshel: honestly, I mean, I feel like this is the first time ever where I took principals from the stock market, and I applied it to like overall business and economy, and I was like holy shit. I have an edge in building stuff because I just built tree houses and stuff like my family. We grew up on 70 acres of land. So like
01:10:13.630 --> 01:10:23.599
Colby Warshel: when I'm 6 years old, I'm literally in the force, like alone by myself, for like 6 h like making shit, just doing random stuff. That's literally all I did my whole life. And then
01:10:23.690 --> 01:10:42.840
Colby Warshel: I was like, why don't I? Just because I built this whole apartment. Like all this, this room is completely just a blank white room before I was here, too, and I was like I learned how to do like frame walls, and just do shit that I never did before, because I just built like platforms and trees. And I was like you know what? Why don't I? Just I see all these little campsites
01:10:42.900 --> 01:10:54.639
Colby Warshel: all around the place. Pennsylvania is beautiful. People come here for like hiking and shit like that and camping. If you look at the trend of camping, it's just going straight up like it is a huge trend straight up.
01:10:54.640 --> 01:11:13.710
Colby Warshel: And I was like, why don't I try to take some of that edge of like knowing how to build shit and make a campsite that's cooler than other people shit offer them better stuff like we have a pond on our property that was like filled up in 1977 from a flood that used to be like a a speedway in like the seventies, and it got filled up. So we have this awesome like
01:11:13.710 --> 01:11:24.500
Colby Warshel: 2. It's like 2 to 3 Acre Pond. So I was like, we have all this shit sitting right here. All I need is the approval of my parents to let me build shit on the land, and they were like, sure we don't care so.
01:11:24.710 --> 01:11:45.869
Colby Warshel: And the whole. The whole premise of it, too, is that I want in like 35 years whenever I've well, I guess that not that long, but maybe like 20 years from now, when I have kids and like all that shit, I want them to be able to do the stuff I did when I was a little kid, and if I come back here in 20 years and like my parents die, or they are not living here anymore, like this land is, gonna be so overgrown that
01:11:45.870 --> 01:11:54.829
Colby Warshel: I won't even be able to enjoy it. It'll take me 2 months just to get it back to Baseline. So the whole premise, like me pitching it to my parents, is like, Hey, let me do this.
01:11:55.060 --> 01:12:05.700
Colby Warshel: My equity in this will slowly dilute over time, and then the money that is made from those cabins because this isn't gonna be my first cabin. I'm gonna do many more of these in many different places, not just on my property.
01:12:05.750 --> 01:12:11.940
Colby Warshel: Then, over time, that money from the cabins can pay for keeping landscaping good and
01:12:12.050 --> 01:12:14.829
Colby Warshel: taking care of the house and doing all that shit. So
01:12:15.039 --> 01:12:22.350
Colby Warshel: it's really cool, because. even like the risk aspect, like, I spent 10 grand on it to build everything
01:12:23.020 --> 01:12:40.270
Colby Warshel: And it was all built by me, so I saved like at least half. I would have spent 20 if I had to pay somebody to build that shit, but I would have never spent 10 grand if I didn't think for a second like dude. I spend like $20,000 every time I take a one contract position size on the futures
01:12:40.289 --> 01:12:55.520
Colby Warshel: like I put on risk. So I put on way more risk than 10 grand every time I take a trade. So why am I scared to do something where I'm actually decent at it, like building shit and see if that works. And it's made like 50%. So far in the first, like, 4 months.
01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:56.500
Colby Warshel: Yeah.
01:12:56.950 --> 01:13:09.539
Lawrence obioma: Liquid stuff.
01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:16.289
Lawrence obioma: No, not yet. Let me let me let me deal with this, this annoying investing
01:13:16.300 --> 01:13:31.459
Lawrence obioma: this annoying vehicle that I'm using to increase my wealth first before I get into another one. And I also think sometimes to focus on one thing first, now that yeah. And II also think it's like, like for me, I have the. I have the luxury of having
01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:47.469
Lawrence obioma: semi multiple streams of income depending on the strategy is is performing that like one of our strategies. Oh, my God! Does this thing even work? He hasn't read, for, like everyone ran for like a month or 2, I don't know. It hasn't taken a trade for 2 months, but when it takes straight. It does so well, so it's like
01:13:47.520 --> 01:14:02.420
Lawrence obioma: so it's it's one of those situations where and I don't have to take the trade, you know. It's it does everything. So it I feel like that for me. Feels like a new sales income that is thriving in that period of time. So I think I think it's.
01:14:02.820 --> 01:14:06.029
Lawrence obioma: You know, it's this is what someone said. And
01:14:06.380 --> 01:14:18.259
Lawrence obioma: in a podcast. Is like, I'll go trading is one of the harder ways, like of initially training, like, it's easy for us to like. Just sit in to get like, sit in front of a computer, get a broker. You'll be able to just train
01:14:18.260 --> 01:14:40.620
Lawrence obioma: right. If you want to get, I'll go. If you want to get an output to do. You have to understand the statistics, the coding the blah blah! You have to get into that whole field right, but when you get into it the work is done, and but versus when you, if you still have to do it on a day-to-day basis, it still feels a little bit like a like a job, even if you're working for just an hour. And I think that's my mindset, for it right now is like, I'm I feel like.
01:14:40.970 --> 01:15:00.410
Lawrence obioma: you know. I spent. I probably spend more time on this desk than most of you guys, because II literally sit here for like 12 h, 12 to 15 HA day like literally here. I'm not even joking. II go to the gym, but I'm working, and I kind of I kind of have it in my head like I'm investing my time for the next 2 years to have a All the learn knowledge for this.
01:15:00.410 --> 01:15:13.199
Lawrence obioma: and unlike most people who are who get into this on a on profitable, which I think I'm wrong. I've seen some profitable outgo traders. I've I've heard of those. Ii find it interesting when those people are profitable because II try to figure out.
01:15:13.390 --> 01:15:29.360
Lawrence obioma: And then I learned I learned that they did a lot of things wrong. And so it kind of makes sense. But for me, I feel like I'm just trying to invest as much time to make sure I'm always profitable, doing things the right way and always making sure that you know I don't have too much risk, or
01:15:29.370 --> 01:15:32.660
Lawrence obioma: I'm not putting myself in a situation where I have to take myself out of.
01:15:32.850 --> 01:15:38.989
Lawrence obioma: you know, and if something was to ever go wrong. Mitch, I'm I'm sure you guys all do the same. Maybe the other day
01:15:39.829 --> 01:15:42.979
Alexander Winkler: that's the main focus right?
01:15:43.200 --> 01:15:49.630
Alexander Winkler: Best as we can. Yeah, Toby, do you? Wanna do you want to share your
01:15:49.770 --> 01:15:54.579
Alexander Winkler: your, how would you call it your your success or your
01:15:54.670 --> 01:15:59.550
Alexander Winkler: journey into profitability. I guess you can call it. or is Toby already?
01:16:08.590 --> 01:16:19.750
Toby Dawson: I told you, after trading till Market Close yesterday and your your time zone that was been brutal. The best choice I made today was like close my computer, only like 10 min after we started talking. So
01:16:20.060 --> 01:16:28.249
Toby Dawson: like almost always the best choice. It seems
01:16:28.530 --> 01:16:29.420
Lawrence obioma: nice.
01:16:30.160 --> 01:16:39.079
Toby Dawson: but I didn't trade the best hacker. I should have chased it with Danny, but which one? Huh?
01:16:39.400 --> 01:16:43.900
Toby Dawson: Which one was that? Vfs. yeah, the one. Yeah, I just.
01:16:45.250 --> 01:16:53.979
Toby Dawson: I felt like I was getting high getting in high, going to get in too high every single time. So I said, forget it.
01:16:54.390 --> 01:16:56.079
Daniel Camozzo: You want to see something funny.
01:16:56.130 --> 01:17:08.029
Daniel Camozzo: If I'm sharing my screen, you guys can hopefully see this. So I'm tracking my stats and all of that. Look at this. This is August for me. So far, so little bit. That's
01:17:08.400 --> 01:17:09.390
Daniel Camozzo: what's that?
01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:14.219
Lawrence obioma: That's a lot of red days. II
01:17:14.270 --> 01:17:24.588
Lawrence obioma: well, yeah. And exactly. That's that's a good point, because that would be really rough for you there.
01:17:25.180 --> 01:17:50.590
Daniel Camozzo: So yeah, it's been a really tough month. So this is also a factor. I think of me taking bigger size that I'm that's what I'm trying to tell myself at least, is that you know here's a $4,300 day, 4,300 red, 33 green 38 red, 23. So you know, it's to both sides. It's just been really choppy in August. So I'm trying to limit my like emotional connection to it, at least.
01:17:51.010 --> 01:18:01.039
Daniel Camozzo: Because at least I'm having big green days, too. But look at this August, the only day I'm allowed to make money in August is Tuesdays.
01:18:01.680 --> 01:18:02.930
Tommy Salerno: Oh, my God!
01:18:03.539 --> 01:18:10.419
Daniel Camozzo: Easy week for you also! My best days over 3 years.
01:18:10.600 --> 01:18:23.579
Daniel Camozzo: like significantly. I don't know what it is. yeah, just, you know, trying to be careful trying to be mindful of how I'm sizing what I'm what positions I'm taking all of that. But that's something that I am considering is that
01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:32.780
Daniel Camozzo: it's been a tough month. I'm red on the month within literally like 2 really good green trades worth.
01:18:32.789 --> 01:18:40.249
Daniel Camozzo: So it's not a the amount I'm read is not a big deal. I just need to tighten up what I'm doing. And it's just constant strategy refinement.
01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:42.039
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, yeah.
01:18:42.090 --> 01:18:56.860
Colby Warshel: when I see Danny shit, I'm just like Bro, if you could combine algorithms with discretionary, and you can have just a consistent, constant expected value, like all the it's just sitting right there right in front of your face, and it'll lock you out the second you get below like
01:18:56.950 --> 01:19:01.659
Colby Warshel: whatever some.
01:19:02.289 --> 01:19:03.360
Daniel Camozzo: Huh? Yep.
01:19:03.810 --> 01:19:09.530
Tommy Salerno: I was saying. You can probably find some sort of measured variables to create that for you.
01:19:09.630 --> 01:19:14.579
Lawrence obioma: No, I don't. I don't know why this sounds so so.
01:19:14.590 --> 01:19:21.909
Lawrence obioma: it's not that big a deal. I mean, you could actually create like I told you so that freedom app that we have right. You can literally trigger it
01:19:22.210 --> 01:19:32.030
Lawrence obioma: to close. Well, you could tell it to close after a certain time. But let's say, let's say I, if I was to create a program, what I'll do is I'll just because I know I know.
01:19:32.110 --> 01:19:36.130
Lawrence obioma: Td. Ameritrade is Api. I could probably just see Danny's account.
01:19:36.160 --> 01:20:04.570
Lawrence obioma: I can look at how much money he's lost the day, and if he's lost of a certain amount, I could just like mid trade, even mid trade. I will. I could close that trade, and then and then close your account and the freedom. And then that's the problem. I'll need your statistics over like 2 years to know if it's actually worth doing.
01:20:04.570 --> 01:20:34.370
Lawrence obioma: Like, yeah, if you gave me, I could just reduce some research analysis on it like, break it down into an equity chart like if you just give me any open, close price, I could break it into an equity chart throughout the day like at any timeframe. And I could see how you reacted on different times. And I could be like, Okay, Danny, you want. I can prove for sure, over 2 years you should have never traded on August.
01:20:34.430 --> 01:20:38.409
Daniel Camozzo: Let's share again, then that's the hard part
01:20:38.680 --> 01:20:50.950
Daniel Camozzo: specifically about my trading is that the typical trends and expectations that you might think like people ask me all the time, do I have a Max
01:20:51.140 --> 01:20:53.130
Daniel Camozzo: loss?
01:20:53.660 --> 01:20:59.079
Daniel Camozzo: so that's a good day. And here's a great example of why I don't have a Max loss.
01:20:59.270 --> 01:21:13.010
Daniel Camozzo: let's see, here's another great example of why I don't have a Max loss. Obviously I'm not trading well those days, but if I had stopped down 3,000
01:21:13.240 --> 01:21:16.349
Daniel Camozzo: I'd have had a $3,000 red day.
01:21:16.370 --> 01:21:24.420
Daniel Camozzo: Yeah. that was a bad day like a lot of these days, especially in August like
01:21:24.880 --> 01:21:30.289
Daniel Camozzo: this. There's a specific reason why I don't have a Max loss. And
01:21:30.579 --> 01:21:35.920
Daniel Camozzo: II don't know. I imagine it would be very difficult to code something to trade.
01:21:36.250 --> 01:21:50.298
Lawrence obioma: Honestly, I wouldn't. I wouldn't care to do that. I would just copy your trade. I would just make like whatever you take a trade. I'll just get something to take a trade. But
01:21:50.480 --> 01:22:02.639
Lawrence obioma: but I would. With that I'm I always think about like, do hedge phones like Smb, capital! Do that like? What if if they don't? Why don't they cause like there's a rumor that I've heard there's a guy Anton Kriel.
01:22:02.680 --> 01:22:18.990
Daniel Camozzo: He used to be, I think, a Goldman Sachs Guy, and now he goes around and he does. These seminars. He has talked free, at least in a couple of seminars that I've watched about how your broker, when you place a trade
01:22:19.100 --> 01:22:32.110
Daniel Camozzo: they have you in either the profitable or the unprofitable bucket, and they will either take the same trade or a trade against you based on what bucket you're in. I don't have a way to verify that or anything. But it makes a lot of sense to me.
01:22:32.210 --> 01:22:38.359
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, yeah, I don't know if they would do. III mean, I don't know what they
01:22:38.770 --> 01:22:40.889
Lawrence obioma: ethical reason the ethical
01:22:40.970 --> 01:22:44.300
Lawrence obioma: issues. I'll get that added shit about ethical.
01:22:44.400 --> 01:22:56.600
Lawrence obioma: No sorry ethic, I mean legal. I don't know if there's a legal thing about that. But if if they did that I don't think II mean I wouldn't, really. II was thinking about this recently, too, because, like.
01:22:56.620 --> 01:23:22.719
Lawrence obioma: like, okay, we know for a fact that these, you know, you know, like citadel, they all get your order flow right. They get you all this, no matter what, and they have to do something with it right? And and because they have to be profitable, they're happy because their their job is a market maker, which, realistically, when you think about it, everyone is a marketer. Everyone is just fulfilling in order, and whatever their their. They have a required amount to fill, fulfill. But they can use their strategies to do so
01:23:22.720 --> 01:23:29.159
Lawrence obioma: like they have strategies on on table to react to your orders right? So if you think about it.
01:23:29.170 --> 01:23:37.740
Lawrence obioma: do do these people? Are these people technically, especially when they can buy all the flow? Are they just illegally
01:23:37.870 --> 01:24:05.209
Lawrence obioma: creating a strategy cause they they they're just reacting to your orders in ways that they've already. They're paying for it right? So they're like they can front run it? Well, it's not illegal, it is controversial. It's a big thing that they've talked. But my, my! I've I've dealt with this for a while and had had like questionable, like thoughts about it. But then I think about well, II need my order. Field
01:24:14.520 --> 01:24:17.630
Daniel Camozzo: number one is like, what's the alternative? And
01:24:18.260 --> 01:24:19.499
Daniel Camozzo: oh, go ahead!
01:24:19.970 --> 01:24:36.769
Tommy Salerno: No, I was just gonna say the argument for you not having a Max loss. Seems to me like that. You're somebody who won't. You know, if you start having red trades or going down, let's say, after 1,000 in the red, you're somebody who's not going to take that and kind of
01:24:37.030 --> 01:24:45.500
Tommy Salerno: spiral mentally out of control. I'm on the other hand, someone I noticed mentally like, when I start getting into that red
01:24:45.510 --> 01:24:55.310
Tommy Salerno: mindspace, I definitely feel like I'm more likely to go more red because it influences my strategy. My emotions start to take over. And I'm cutting
01:24:55.340 --> 01:25:17.838
Tommy Salerno: funding winners way too fast because I wanna have a green trade, or I'm letting my losers go way too deep on big size, because the big size is like I'm more attached to like a bigger position, because, you know, obviously, you want it to end up to be a green trade instead of so that's also ocean rather than just seeing it as just a trade, you know. You cut it at your stop
01:25:17.840 --> 01:25:34.059
Tommy Salerno: instead of trying to hold hold and hope I'm more likely to do that. If I start spiraling out of control in the red. To me it seems like you or somebody who can kind of recognize that and not fall into that trap so definitely, you know, hats off to you, for not.
01:25:34.060 --> 01:25:57.429
Lawrence obioma: you know, being able to do that. I've freaking for sure. Wish I was able to go from there.
01:25:57.710 --> 01:26:04.970
Lawrence obioma: Like, let me explain. So over a long period of time, stop losses are really bad.
01:26:04.970 --> 01:26:31.939
Lawrence obioma: They actually they actually overall make your strategy less profitable like I could show you a bunch of the examples of if I brought my stop lost full services. If I just put it to the moon. You could probably be just profitable. Just let didn't even put a stop loss, but put a logical stop in in place like a logical stop thing to reason to stop. That's something that just makes no sense. Because if something, if you're shorting something and it's up 200, and you've been down since it was up. 90% stop trading.
01:26:31.940 --> 01:26:45.660
Lawrence obioma: or maybe wait till it's up. 300 and short, you know, but never put a stop. That's gonna be like all stop on the day or whatever. So maybe that's why that happens. But it still is that yeah, my outgoing days where I think our outgo was down like $700, and I was just like
01:26:45.890 --> 01:26:50.780
Lawrence obioma: what it hop and what, and then I but I just. But it keeps taking trays. And I, it takes trees, and I'm like
01:26:50.820 --> 01:27:02.690
Lawrence obioma: what's gonna happen to them. And then it makes up. It's up. It's up 300. At the end of the day I sleep I wake up. It's up 300. I was going to bed before I took a nap in the afternoon because the outgo didn't.
01:27:02.850 --> 01:27:05.760
Lawrence obioma: It wasn't emotional saying. Oh.
01:27:05.789 --> 01:27:16.240
Lawrence obioma: up, down to $800,500 loss losing day. So I guess to show you like.
01:27:16.270 --> 01:27:39.130
Alexander Winkler: maybe that happens.........
01:27:39.130 --> 01:27:55.460
Alexander Winkler: but even. Then let's. Say you're down. 1,000. Then you're down 2,000, then you're down 3,000, then maybe 4 or 5. Then you finally get back to like only down 1,000 on the day, and then maybe you end up 100 on the day, and that happens like 3 days in a row. You just hurt your like.
01:27:55.530 --> 01:28:08.239
Alexander Winkler: I would probably rather be down 3,000 than up 300 at that point, because I'm going to be mentally a mess at the end of those 3 days, and that's going to really mess me up sometimes going forward, and that's just myself.
01:28:08.240 --> 01:28:33.160
Alexander Winkler: Now I like that will probably not work for other people, but I know for me. It's better to risk that. Me like to stop the mental downside, because I I've had those days where I traded like 8 h the full day, and then I would do that back to back to back, and I was so shot at the end of the week where I was like I think I just lost a year to my life like I'm excited, so I would rather not have that. And that's my reasoning.
01:28:33.160 --> 01:28:40.519
Daniel Camozzo: not the reason my P. And L. Won't be better cause I do think it would be better. I just I don't want to put myself through the stress.
01:28:40.870 --> 01:28:48.960
Daniel Camozzo: Well, here's the thing is like people in my in the warrior chat. Frequently they see me have those kinds of days, and
01:28:49.390 --> 01:29:03.260
Daniel Camozzo: my only response really is like, it doesn't matter which side you're on, whether you're the type of person who needs a Max Max loss, and that keeps you safe, or you're the type of person who can keep trading and make some back or make all of it back. It doesn't matter.
01:29:03.670 --> 01:29:22.960
Lawrence obioma: The only thing that matters is, you know which side you're on. I've tried that on our equity chart overall equity chart combined. I've tried stopping over after a period of time in made less money
01:29:23.329 --> 01:29:27.120
Lawrence obioma: because most of what happened is that the times where it would have made back the money?
01:29:27.140 --> 01:29:36.820
Lawrence obioma: Well, that makes sense for the idea that yes, it would.
01:29:36.840 --> 01:29:42.969
Lawrence obioma: Well, I I'll I'll put it like this. I know sometimes the better way to make the outgoes.
01:29:43.039 --> 01:29:46.380
Lawrence obioma: but sometimes I make them so that it fix makes me feel comfortable.
01:29:46.760 --> 01:30:10.990
Lawrence obioma: like, I know sometimes they're not putting like, maybe with, for example, I'm dealing with one, an algorithm strategy, the breakdown strategy that I'm working on right now. And because the this markets have such a huge tendencies to go up, and they, you know, they go back up like I'll I'll get ready for breakdown, but it will bounce back up and come back up. Obviously just equities markets, but they they it loses a lot, but when it wins it wins big.
01:30:11.020 --> 01:30:16.120
Lawrence obioma: but for me meant because of the type of trader I am. I'm not comfortable with seeing
01:30:16.430 --> 01:30:27.539
Lawrence obioma: 8 9 days of a strategy just keeps losing. It's very hard for me. But yeah, I know the strategy works on the bought, but I'm I don't even know if I want to deploy that yet, like so I think it's it is.
01:30:27.579 --> 01:30:29.909
Lawrence obioma: It is. There is something to say to like.
01:30:29.970 --> 01:30:38.350
Lawrence obioma: Sometimes we do things to make sense for us. and it doesn't really have to. It doesn't really have to make sense like while Pml. Because
01:30:38.480 --> 01:30:54.130
Lawrence obioma: if if it if it I don't know if if sometimes I think it's bad, though I don't know. I wish we were all a little bit of robots, and we're just like no, we this works for Pnl will be like Danny, and just like, keep trading.
01:30:54.140 --> 01:31:21.819
Colby Warshel: Put yourself in a black room, and it was just locked in there for 3 years. You would absolutely be a million times better than if you could see how everyone else trades and hear all these cliches. Trend is your friends. Smb. Capital! Says this broken slot machine. Change your sizing all the time. Well, what if you're not supposed to fucking? Do that cause? That's not who you are. That's the biggest thing. Yeah, that's the biggest thing, especially with, like, you know, we have a few 1,000 members, and
01:31:21.870 --> 01:31:45.749
Daniel Camozzo: the the thing that I try to get across the most is, you know, I do weekly mentor sessions where I'm going live. I'm talking, and all that. We have another guy who does that. We have, Ross, who does that. We have a couple of their mentors with like 1 million dollar badges. The the biggest thing that I say is like, you'll see all of us calling out trade ideas. That doesn't mean it's the right trade for you to take, and you just have to figure out
01:31:45.780 --> 01:32:02.209
Lawrence obioma: which one of us, or combination, or whatever kind of works best for you, and that takes a long time. That's the hard part.
01:32:02.370 --> 01:32:30.879
Lawrence obioma: like like Kobe. You said that you like. II think you watched you said you were doing it for like 3 or 4 years, and you'd be like you tried a bunch of different things. And I I'm always like you know it. It's kind. It's always very interesting, even from my perspective. Now that more outgoes when I, because I look at myself like what was I doing before. But I could have just kept doing this thing. But when you don't know what this thing is, you're kind of just like having to figure that out, and that process alone can like destroy you like.
01:32:30.880 --> 01:32:52.920
Lawrence obioma: I think it's sometimes sometimes it's better to just stick with something and just not touch anything else or like. If someone gives you. If someone gives you a strategy that you don't work and they can prove it like kind of what we talked about with Darwin X and stuff like that. Then, okay, just trust that and just do that. But most people are not doing that. No one is really, I don't know. I don't know if you guys know anyone who for sure has a back tested strategy that they just giving out
01:32:52.980 --> 01:33:09.150
Lawrence obioma: like. And they like they know their exact entry, their exact exit, the exact like reasons. And all of that. Most people don't do that like the amount of work that it takes to get that done like. The reason why we have 7 strategies is not because I've made 7 strategies. We have. I have way more.
01:33:09.230 --> 01:33:11.679
Lawrence obioma: I have, like a file, a folder, with like probably
01:33:11.850 --> 01:33:29.139
Lawrence obioma: 30 different things in that some some of them are just too correlated with what we have and the ones we have at best. So it. It's it depends on what is the idea that you feel comfortable with going for that day or that for that, you know, next 6 months? And I think when you find that you finally be like
01:33:29.810 --> 01:33:43.680
Lawrence obioma: alright, I'll stick with this, and then maybe I'll dabble it to something else like on a SIM, which I don't know if you guys use Sims when you started. Ii know I didn't. III just didn't let straight live started making real mistakes.
01:33:43.700 --> 01:33:57.719
Alexander Winkler: SIM Sims are great just to test out buttons stuff sometime, just to make sure my hotkeys's work, and although Sims often don't use work with hotkey's, it's super annoying. But
01:33:57.910 --> 01:34:12.689
Alexander Winkler: but, hey, guys, that's a whole different topic. And we actually have to probably cut it here because we've already way over, although there's so much
01:34:12.690 --> 01:34:29.860
Alexander Winkler: I gotta get to dinner. My girlfriend's already knocking so much, so much, and maybe in the future. We'll have more talking points. We could all think over, but we had some great
01:34:30.110 --> 01:34:33.310
Alexander Winkler: great great topics we covered. Appreciate, you guys.
01:34:33.470 --> 01:34:40.960
Daniel Camozzo: I guess. Yeah. Great for 6 people. Take it easy, guys. Alright.