- Alex Winkler
- Colby Warshel (Not on)
- Tommy Salerno (Not on)
- Daniel Camozzo
- Lawrence Obioma
- Toby Dawson
🎉 Hello Insiders - Episode 32 is live! 🎧
Episode 32 dives deep into the world of day trading, highlighting the progress at the end of August, insights from top traders, and a candid discussion on handling big losses. As Alex Winkler recounts his biggest trading setback, Toby shares his strategy for a remarkable recovery. Tune in for a comprehensive overview of the current market and the gameplan for SPY & Small Caps.
0:00 📊 Trading Progress End Of August
1:10 🚀 Discussing Top Traders
4:05 ❓ How Many Day Trading Strategies (Community Q's)
14:20 📈 How Does A Stock Index Work?
19:35 📍 Dynamic Support & Resistance Lines
24:55 😰 Anxiety of Trading
27:27 💔 Alex Winkler's Biggest Trading Loss (EDTX Stock)
32:10 🌑 Managing Black Swam Events in Stock Market
38:57 🔍 VERB Stock Live Flush & Current Market
43:00 😢 Dannie's Big Red Day (ADTX Stock)
46:00 🔄 Tobie's Big Red Day insane Recovery
48:19 💸 Giving Back Profits or Leaving Profits On Table?
53:50 🎲 Trading Risk / Trading Opportunity Cost
57:57 📅 Gameplan Going Forward (SPY & Small Caps)
Stay connected for more insights, lessons, and discussions that could be game-changing for your trading journey. As always, your feedback is highly valued. Feel free to drop a comment or review! #Love from the insiders ❤️
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Lawrence obioma: Just crazy. But how's you guys? Trading week? I saw. It's been from what I saw from Danny. And I'm curious on what Toby's chart looks like to. Is
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Lawrence obioma: is the wild for some people right now, though
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Daniel Camozzo: I got absolutely destroyed last week on Friday, mostly my fault. I had a couple of chances to get out while it was still like a normal size red day.
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Daniel Camozzo: So it's just like a lot of low quality moves. And I just kept trading them.
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Lawrence obioma: How about Toby?
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Toby Dawson: Friday was a
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Toby Dawson: was one of my better training days. II and
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Toby Dawson: I didn't make many trades. Just made a couple of good ones and alder the day early.
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Lawrence obioma: Nice. That's II saw a bunch of charts from a bunch of people. it was. It was. It was pretty crazy, was either you were doing really, really well or doing really, really bad.
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Lawrence obioma: And it's just a bunch of random people like random people that follow. I saw also, you guys. Do you guys keep up with
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Lawrence obioma: crispy trades? Guys know who that is
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Lawrence obioma: he? Every time I see him he reminds me of the quintessential gamer. For some reason he he like looks like the quint. How many trace he takes. He probably was a quintessential gamer. And he is funny, cause he has a 47% win rate in August. But like literally, I think, 0 red days.
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Lawrence obioma: So be so interesting to see But II think there was a day where you took 400 trades, which I guess for Toby is nothing.
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Alexander Winkler: Yeah. Stuff. Your guys's alley. Honestly.
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Lawrence obioma: yeah, I it's crazy. Toby and Danny usually are in at least north of 200. I feel like.
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Alexander Winkler: No, I'm I'm not anywhere near that anymore. I try not to be. Yeah. I'm I'm usually closer to like 50 to 100.
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Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I feel like I've never really gone over 40. I might have had like a 45 or 50 trade day. But that's that's a lot. But that's why I said it kind of shows your personality for someone like Crispy to be taken that many trade like it shows the personality, and I feel like back when I was younger and in the gaming world like that I could probably have handled that mentally. Now I don't know if I could handle 400 trades in a day.
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Lawrence obioma: and and still be.
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Lawrence obioma: you know, so tuned in for like how old is like, he's like 20, maybe
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Lawrence obioma: what? He's 20.
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Daniel Camozzo: Yeah. something like that. I'm actually not even sure that he's 20.
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Daniel Camozzo: He made like 75 K. In August. And he's been doing like 20 K. Months every single month he he was with warrior until I think I think his subscription ran out just like maybe 2 months ago.
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Alexander Winkler: That's very cool. Does warrior have a like? Once you reach like 100 k. Or a million, or some sort of milestone, you become like an unlimited member?
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Daniel Camozzo: No, no, not really. Unless you're like working for the company. Why would you make? Why would I make you an unlimited member now, because it would keep a lot of high
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Lawrence obioma: like a marketing thing. Yeah, yeah, it's like we have like a hundred 1 million dollar traders, you know. They're not going to stick around if they have to pay.
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Alexander Winkler: you know, 200 300 a month. Once they're successful traders, probably
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Alexander Winkler: maybe maybe they will for the for the psychologist, and all like the group meetings and stuff. I mean, it could be still be worth it. I'm just saying like.
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Lawrence obioma: I think I think we can, you know, to kind of break the ice of starting off. We can look at that person's question that they had.
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Lawrence obioma: and and kind of see what see what everyone's thoughts is, cause II have my thoughts clearly on it, but I'm I'm curious on what
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Lawrence obioma: Danny and Toby, because technically well, I'll I'll let you guys break it down before I even, I even interject. But
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Lawrence obioma: yeah, you guys see this. I think you have to click? Did you take a screenshot without seeing the whole thing?
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Lawrence obioma: A.
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Lawrence obioma: Yeah. This you have to click. Read more and then screenshot.
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Alexander Winkler: Oh, Lord, okay.
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Lawrence obioma: But I thought it was a pretty interesting question. Because because technically okay, so I will just say this.
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Lawrence obioma: that it's you need. It's interesting how the that person wants to say a pattern, but
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Lawrence obioma: really a pattern can be, you know, as micro or macro as you want it to be right. like, you know, the same way you trade cap ups.
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Lawrence obioma: It's not the same thing as view app breakdown like those are 2 different. One is more macro, and one is more micro like the macro is the gap up the macro is the every time it comes to view app.
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Lawrence obioma: I react in a certain way, whereas the gap up is like, I'm gonna trade this because it infers volatility and stuff like that. But yeah, I'll let you guys think about it while you.
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Alexander Winkler: So yeah, so we have a new question from our community. So if you post a Ca question below in the Youtube comments or in the discord. Actually, we could so many questions the discord we should probably copy and paste some of those totally forgot to do that. Anyway. So this is a Youtube question here. From the same person as last week. So let's go ahead and answer it. And I just zoomed out, and I don't know how to zoom back in. Oh, here we go
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Alexander Winkler: again. Guns, Emperor
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Alexander Winkler: or II don't know. I don't know Lauren. Alright. It's there for anyone that wants to read it. But yeah, appreciate the question. So here it is.
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Alexander Winkler: Is it really true that you only need one pattern to make a living off of trading. I've heard this twice now in the industry, first from Linda Rashke. Maybe I'm seeing that wrong again, second from David Paul's Seminar. Does it sound too good to be true to you guys. It's very hard to stick with a system that works, but has a lot of down draws, plus the constant doubt and confusion from other people like
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Alexander Winkler: the market is always changing, or your strong strategy eventually stops working, adds to the leader a hardship of following the plan, because every time I get a losing week, I ask myself, Is this the time my strategy stops working?
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Alexander Winkler: Is this the time I find a new strategy. Is this the time I tweak my strategy? Now I've stopped using it. But still collect. It's data. I have a fully mechanical strategy and work for 3 months in a row, then stop working on the fourth, and now at
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Alexander Winkler: be E for the fifth month. Break even for the fifth month. Is that is this normal? So the stats are 300 trade 33 win rate. That sounds like a reversal strategy or something. Risk reward. 3
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Alexander Winkler: Ps. It seems to be normal on a simulator, but still would love to hear your thoughts on this. Who wants to start breaking that one down?
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Lawrence obioma: I've I'll I'll let you guys do, because I'm I'm actually discretionary, and I'm I'm happy to go first. My opinion is, yes, you can make a living off of one pattern or one setup. One idea.
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Daniel Camozzo: But the thing is, it's gonna be difficult. Because, like you said in the question, the market changes. That pattern might at a certain point start showing more rejections like breakouts haven't been working well this year. They've been doing false breakouts more often than not, and so you get in at a breakout spot.
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Daniel Camozzo: Maybe you get in 2 cents under the breakout trigger. It goes 5 cents and then rejects 20 cents.
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Daniel Camozzo: so that's just gonna be a period where breakouts aren't working. Well.
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Daniel Camozzo: So like, you have a couple of options, you can just wait until the market changes back to being good for your one strategy. Or you can adapt that strategy. And that's basically what becoming a
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Daniel Camozzo: profitable or professional trader looks like you're gonna develop and adapt your strategy over time to adapt and match what the current market conditions are doing.
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Daniel Camozzo: even in.
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Daniel Camozzo: even when you've adapted that one strategy. You're still gonna be doing a lot of waiting for that one pattern or that one set up to come around each day. Or maybe it comes around once or twice a week.
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Daniel Camozzo: And so, in my opinion, it's not that realistic to wait for that one setup for that one trade a week, if that's what the market is giving you, cause you're gonna get kind of rusty, in my opinion.
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Daniel Camozzo: and you might be a little bit slow on the trigger, slow on the hot keys, the buttons, whatever it is, you might miss that one trade, and if you do
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Daniel Camozzo: I know what would happen to me, I would probably get kind of triggered if I was just waiting for the one setup.
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Daniel Camozzo: so that just I see it that one time that week, and that's it, and I missed it.
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Daniel Camozzo: Next time it comes around I'm probably gonna be kind of aggressive. I'm probably not gonna trade it as well as I could.
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Daniel Camozzo: so I think yes, in the right market.
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Daniel Camozzo: When one pattern is happening frequently, you can make a living off of that one set up that one pattern, but realistically over time. That's not really what the market is going to give you.
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Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I agree. And
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Lawrence obioma: I think
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Lawrence obioma: everything you said you said can be echoed in so many different ways. But that's the real re reality of it. It's really just you're waiting.
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Lawrence obioma: you know, even if you're good at the pad, and even if you're bad with it, you're still gonna be waiting. And I will say this from from a lot of testing.
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Lawrence obioma: the more frequent the pattern.
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Lawrence obioma: the more noisy it can be, and the more it changes. So if you try to get a pattern that you think? Oh, this happens more frequently. Well, be ready for a lot of change
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Lawrence obioma: very consistently.
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Lawrence obioma: because the bigger the wider the idea, the less the the more probability of it working over a longer period of time. So that's why you wait for extremes. Extremes are obvious, and they only happen rarely right that and they have a higher probability of working because they're not frequent. It's not people who recognize it.
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Daniel Camozzo: Volatility, higher profit, potential, yeah, higher. Because obviously, the higher the pro volatility. That's a new experience. That is something that's red, and it's not as as frequent and and you also have to be ready for it, I think like that's why
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Lawrence obioma: you know, people always say, Oh, I wish I was a
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Lawrence obioma: trader now, what I wish I was the same trader now as if I was in 2020, because if you were as good as you are now, you would have crushed 2020 like nothing. It would have probably been a 7 figure trader, like everyone else, was at that time. But now, you know, we're struggling through the
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Lawrence obioma: the quote unquote hard times the role. Yeah, and it'll it'll come back. So II definitely agree with with what both of you guys are saying for sure. The only thing I'd probably add to that is,
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Alexander Winkler: you could probably have, like a general thesis like you trade front side momentum above the 9 email on the 1 min chart. And then you just how you approach that kind of changes based on the
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Alexander Winkler: based on the season. So maybe, instead of trading those breakouts like Daniel was saying, because they're not working. You start accumulating before the breakout. But yeah, in in a way, it's all kind of similar. You just kind of approach situations a little differently. So you kinda switch up your strategy based on based on what the environment's telling you. I think I think that's what. Especially if you're training a mechanical strategy. You don't have the luxury of
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Lawrence obioma: of discretion or awareness. So you like. The reason why I say things that happen more frequently have more change is because the people who are in there is more competitive. Now, they're actually relying on a bunch of different factors that attract that re that could make this candlestick react in different ways, and if you're trading something that's more mechanical and very like has very few rigid
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Lawrence obioma: parameters, you're not you. What if the liquidity changes? You're not wait. You're not able to. Where to be aware to that right to be, to be, to react to that. So in mechanical wise.
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Lawrence obioma: It's it's not
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Lawrence obioma: unnecessarily the smartest to trace something that happens frequently. But yeah, you are because of that. You're stuck waiting. And honestly, I don't know if, especially if you're not doing with a computer. I don't know how you can trust it to be consistent.
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Lawrence obioma: Iii feel like
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Lawrence obioma: I would give up if if 5 months I stopped trading, and I was like this thing hasn't worked that I've just lost money. I don't know, but for some. I've I have some strategies I've seen that didn't work for 5 months, and then they.
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Lawrence obioma: you know, even longer than 5 months like a year. I have a strategy right now. That's in the law for almost a year, and hasn't made any profit but it but it it. I looked in the back in the past, and there was a period where it was down for like 8 months, like 8 months, it didn't even move.
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Lawrence obioma: It's a shorting strategy. So it really waits for, like
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Lawrence obioma: the market to be weak. So that's why that's why that happens. So I don't even have it turned on right now, because
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Lawrence obioma: it doesn't really take any. It's not gonna take any trade right now. The market is a little bit too strong for it to to make money.
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Lawrence obioma: So
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Daniel Camozzo: so I think this question and discussion is a great example of why and how traders develop their A plus BC quality set ups and an a plus quality set up in one market isn't necessarily still an a plus quality setup. 3 or 6 months later, if conditions change.
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Lawrence obioma: Yeah, agreed.
00:14:03.669 --> 00:14:16.879
Daniel Camozzo: And and you kind of have to be doing this for a while to really know what that looks like. Yeah, exactly. That's why I mean, it's a great example of why trading is difficult and takes a while to get a help to get a get a hang of.
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:26.330
Lawrence obioma: You know what you know, what I've been recently looking into, too, is the the idea of of even indexes, and how that will hold
00:14:26.449 --> 00:14:32.308
Lawrence obioma: Shazam works like etfs. And all of that.
00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:43.569
Lawrence obioma: I, I'm actually curious. Does anyone actually know how indexes Etfs features? Do they? Do we know, do you guys know how it works like the whole process mean the rebalancing of the
00:14:43.659 --> 00:14:48.350
Lawrence obioma: portfolio, basically. Yeah. But like, how is it? How? It's all calculated and everything.
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Alexander Winkler: I haven't really looked into it much myself. I've read Co. A couple of things. I was kind of curious for a while. Also, when I was getting all the foundations for my fund, I want to start. It was a bit of a similar concept, because you need to have buy-ins and rebalancing. But
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Alexander Winkler: no, I in terms of like how the Spi spy works. I actually don't know how they do that. Do you have more insights?
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Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I mean, so first, well, first off, the index is as actually the spx.
00:15:15.979 --> 00:15:23.408
Lawrence obioma: So If you look up, if you look up the spx right now on any bro
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Lawrence obioma: or your broker or your platform.
00:15:26.489 --> 00:15:40.100
Lawrence obioma: you will see the actual index. There's no volume. It's just mathematical Ca calculations based off the market caps of the the 500 stocks in the in the index calculation. So
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Lawrence obioma: the the way well, futures is easy to. And, by the way, the bring. The reason I'm bringing this up was because II remember there was a conversation that me and
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Lawrence obioma: me and Kobe had where he was, like all the futures, follow spy, and I was like well, no, they off spy for makes the futures work. And and that was like really thinking about it. Well, I know spy works well like that makes no sense. It's it's just stocks, because they all have to be tied to the market. And then I went into the index and I started to understand that. So that's just a little bit of a back story. But essentially they they
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:24.909
Lawrence obioma: a bunch of mathematical calculations over with the market caps of the assets that are in here is what makes them move, how it does every day the market itself! The stock version of it
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Lawrence obioma: is just
00:16:27.790 --> 00:16:31.218
Lawrence obioma: the the Etf Spy, global
00:16:31.529 --> 00:16:35.889
Lawrence obioma: spyglobal, the company emulating the index.
00:16:36.219 --> 00:16:38.079
Lawrence obioma: So how do they do that?
00:16:38.219 --> 00:16:43.090
Lawrence obioma: Essentially, they have a bunch of authorized participants
00:16:43.149 --> 00:16:44.159
Lawrence obioma: that
00:16:44.389 --> 00:16:48.899
Lawrence obioma: that can add and remove shares whenever they want.
00:16:48.969 --> 00:17:01.808
Lawrence obioma: and they do that to balance the stock prices to be the same as Sp Sbx. So like, let's say, the price of spy is at.
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Lawrence obioma: Okay, so it's multiplied by a thousand. So let's say.
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Lawrence obioma: SPX. Is at 4,500,
00:17:10.139 --> 00:17:28.940
Lawrence obioma: and spy is at 4,000 400 $449. They can add shares to make it balance so that they're equal. And this is just if you're you're trying to make them balance. They can just buy shares to make it equal. And so what these Au authorize participants jobs is
00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:30.420
Lawrence obioma: to
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Lawrence obioma: essentially they make profit off the arbitrage, so off the differences of how far it goes from the natural value from the net actual value, the a authorized participants
00:17:42.380 --> 00:17:57.400
Lawrence obioma: add or remove shares to the, to the to the Etf, so that it balances with the natural price of the index. This is why you can actually trade the index, the you're you're just trading
00:17:57.579 --> 00:18:05.058
Lawrence obioma: authorize participants structuring a market to fit with the the indexes. So
00:18:05.170 --> 00:18:13.119
Lawrence obioma: because so they make a profit. Yes, they make a profit off the arbitrage. And these are bet big big banks big institutions.
00:18:13.239 --> 00:18:18.818
Lawrence obioma: And that's you know, they have all the high, the power to actually make this happen in high speed
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:31.219
Lawrence obioma: in such a high speed environment. That's why they are the authorized participant. This is why you can't just be an authorized participant. But yeah, it allows you to trade the mock trade trade trade the indexes because they provide you the liquidity. Essentially
00:18:31.329 --> 00:18:37.369
Lawrence obioma: and yeah, I know that's that's pretty boring. But something to think about, because
00:18:37.550 --> 00:18:59.308
Lawrence obioma: the future and the futures version of that is just contracts so that you will buy or sell something at that price. So if you buy 10 contractors by is just, you have a promise that you will buy at at that price later. So the future is actually follow. Everything follows the index and they're all structured in their own way so that they can
00:18:59.590 --> 00:19:04.639
Lawrence obioma: tree. They can emulate the price of the indexes. But that's that's pretty much it. It's
00:19:04.679 --> 00:19:16.840
Lawrence obioma: it's it's something I was thinking about, just because I was like, well, what are we actually trading on a day to day basis? So if you want to manipulate the markets, if you want to manipulate the markets, you can't manipulate spy. You have to manipulate the underlying.
00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:20.358
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, the underlying access. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:21.230 --> 00:19:21.969
Lawrence obioma: that
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Lawrence obioma: I know. II feel like that was that was a lecture for for the people who care. Oh, no, the discord I was. I was just telling him about a strategy I made.
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Lawrence obioma: I should have I shared a picture of
00:19:42.070 --> 00:19:50.969
Lawrence obioma: a strategy. What? What I what I created is like dynamics of dynamic resistance lines. So they redraw over
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Lawrence obioma: across the day. That's nice cause I end up with so many little lines on my stuff. That's why that's why I shared it, because I thought you guys would be you'd be like you'd actually like it, because it was one thing that you could actually put on your screen, because it also doesn't allow the resistance lines to be too close to each other. So there's a distance minimum distance from how far they can be. So I can, and it draws it in real time. So if it finds a strong support, you can actually see it in real time, and you can react to it as you feel.
00:20:19.889 --> 00:20:30.599
Lawrence obioma: Take, you feel like something to have. I guess I'm it's not like I'm using it. And one of the strategies is using it. And that's what I'm I'm gonna probably deploy it
00:20:30.809 --> 00:20:35.148
Lawrence obioma: on Thursday. I have to go through the robustness testing right now, but
00:20:35.230 --> 00:20:57.300
Lawrence obioma: just another one that we're adding, I coded it in broker. So you have to add broker, but I mean the idea is there I can. I can emulate it on something else if I have to code it on there. II already have the idea in the structure for it. It's really just thinking about
00:20:57.309 --> 00:21:00.139
Lawrence obioma: what it's called what constitutes a
00:21:00.369 --> 00:21:07.608
Lawrence obioma: a strong support line. That's the part that I don't. I can't share. Sometimes I feel like I should. I just want to tell everyone everything that I'm doing, but it's like
00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:21.179
Lawrence obioma: no, not yet, but it's it's but I get that. It's what constitutes what constitutes a strong support line and how to make it come in in and out throughout the day.
00:21:21.210 --> 00:21:25.288
Lawrence obioma: and I'm also thinking of like, hey, what if I create a lo! A bigger support line
00:21:25.318 --> 00:21:28.199
Lawrence obioma: that is, that actually
00:21:28.539 --> 00:21:36.519
Lawrence obioma: or resistance line that is actually drawn, based off the daily highs and the weekly highs, so that you don't even have to think about it. You just see it
00:21:36.730 --> 00:21:45.259
Lawrence obioma: over a month period. You can see the previous high end, whatever I think that'll be really good for discretionary trader. You you definitely don't even have to.
00:21:46.009 --> 00:21:50.589
Lawrence obioma: You don't have to worry about. Oh, is this the support? Is this where I need straight? Because you will see everything
00:21:50.679 --> 00:21:53.269
Lawrence obioma: from from there, and just take the trade.
00:21:53.338 --> 00:22:08.068
Alexander Winkler: I don't know if I could handle more lines on my chart, but maybe maybe a favorite place of other lines right now I got V wad the 9 email in the 15. And then, my, basically, I'll draw my fat red lines are basically just from the daily. I'll start at the daily.
00:22:08.088 --> 00:22:14.098
Alexander Winkler: And then just, I'll be like, Okay, here's you know, major support, or something like that. You know, we have
00:22:14.170 --> 00:22:25.029
Alexander Winkler: support. We break it, we retest it, we get above it. We retest it again. We re. So you know, like that's major support. And then on the daily you'll see those major major lines. That's pretty much all I have on my charts.
00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:29.819
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, which some people would even say is too much. But I think it's really
00:22:29.879 --> 00:22:54.889
Alexander Winkler: yeah. There's some charts where it's like a spider web. You could barely see the charts the actual price. But then there's people that you know don't use anything. But II feel like this is a healthy mix. I think Vwap is, you know, so many people use it. It's nice to know. The 9 email for me is really like where I, my trading strategy, like, I like to be above the Vwap and the 9 email. And I like, I trade off of that pretty aggressively. And that's kind of like the core of my strategy.
00:22:55.349 --> 00:23:14.710
Lawrence obioma: And I I've tried to creating a view up strategy. And II think it works really well here, because there's a lot of volatility to bring it up, that it needs to find some natural point of point of support, and generally view, app is the most logical. But when you're training things that trade everyday and barely have volatility, and whatever sometimes view app just becomes
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:17.708
Lawrence obioma: is is non-existent. It doesn't really matter
00:23:17.739 --> 00:23:22.750
Lawrence obioma: but it's something I'm thinking about. I could. I could just do something like
00:23:22.769 --> 00:23:29.688
Lawrence obioma: test for volatility first is like crazy volatility, and then you can now start to trust the vrap.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:47.148
Lawrence obioma: So I could just make something like that. Instead, I just have to create a volatility core to trigger an idea that okay, this is the type of trade that I need to start taking. It seems like the the volume on certain price zones is is really key. Is that what you're basing your last?
00:23:47.149 --> 00:23:59.818
Alexander Winkler: So that's why I was telling the reason why I'm I clarify that because I thought Coby would think that because I was, I remember listening to him before in the past, used to think that
00:23:59.849 --> 00:24:09.798
Lawrence obioma: like support, volume, support zones and and like where liquidity traps are such a big thing, and yes, they are. They might be but they in this I didn't really care about.
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.190
Lawrence obioma: you know. Is there significant volume
00:24:12.230 --> 00:24:28.029
Lawrence obioma: in this, in this level area to look for support and resistance like supply demand zones? I, that's not what I'm using this. This is purely based off chart highs and their highs. So it's very good for a discretion or trader, because you're not.
00:24:28.199 --> 00:24:34.889
Lawrence obioma: Yeah. You're just trading this. Now, I could create one that just is based off volume. So it's like someone wanted a a line that
00:24:34.909 --> 00:24:41.888
Lawrence obioma: triggers based off like like a a part of the chart that has a lot of volume I could create, like, maybe a bar
00:24:41.909 --> 00:25:04.960
Lawrence obioma: that you can see essentially like point of control. Yeah, like a point of control. So you could see that. And that's the that's the create. The fun thing is that I I've I've been thinking about Dang. Maybe I should just go back to training normally, because I could just want. But then I'm like, Oh, but then I have to take trades, and it makes me feel like it feels like because when for me right now, okay, I'll tell you. I tried taking a trade a couple of like
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:06.978
Lawrence obioma: I think it was a month ago.
00:25:07.179 --> 00:25:12.118
Lawrence obioma: and just just because I was like, Oh, I trust this! And my anxiety
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:17.149
Lawrence obioma: went up so high I had never felt that excited to train every day.
00:25:17.289 --> 00:25:19.489
Lawrence obioma: I have yet to get used to it again.
00:25:19.569 --> 00:25:36.509
Lawrence obioma: Yeah. So I was. I was like, I was like hot publications and stuff I was like. Oh, no, that's a great comment, and follow up on the the one setup idea is when that one setup comes around like.
00:25:36.889 --> 00:25:50.670
Lawrence obioma: if you're in the right market. Maybe you get it like 3 or 4 times a week. If you're not in the right market like every other week, you're not going to respond to it. Well, exactly. Yeah, II completely agree with that. I think that's pretty much it, because that was a really good setup, and
00:25:51.230 --> 00:26:10.228
Alexander Winkler: I haven't traded for so long, and I just trust what you gotta get used to it again. It's even like that. That exact same thing happens to me. If I'm trading something I know I shouldn't be trading. Let's say it's I don't know around noon, and I was working on something else, and I just open my charts. I'll get way more anxious on that trade then, like
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:33.230
Alexander Winkler: I don't know. Trade 5 x the size on, you know, at the market open or something, because that's like, I know, this isn't the best idea. It's like you kind of already know you're doing something you're not supposed to be doing. So. You just get really nervous. Any anytime you're out of your wheelhouse, you'll you'll get extra nervous. I'll I'll tell you this the time I stopped trading like I really stopped, which was, I think it was in March or April
00:26:33.710 --> 00:26:46.429
Lawrence obioma: was when I took a true I took a really big loss. I think it was like 600 bucks or 700 bucks. Oh, really big loss. It wasn't. Actually, that's the thing. It wasn't that big, but it was such a big loss to me in that time to just take that loss. And I was like
00:26:46.489 --> 00:26:50.568
Lawrence obioma: I was like, and at the time I had I'll go. I think my algo started running in March.
00:26:50.579 --> 00:27:15.129
Lawrence obioma: So at that time, my, always, we're doing really good. And I was just the bane of my accounts existence. I was losing every all the money the outgoes of making. And I was just like, you know what. After I took that lost, I said, I told my guys like, you know what I took my last straight for. The that's my last straight, and and then try to take the other rage rate. And maybe that's why I was so nervous because I was like.
00:27:15.369 --> 00:27:18.069
Lawrence obioma: why this, you said you weren't gonna do this again.
00:27:18.349 --> 00:27:30.089
Alexander Winkler: You said you wouldn't do this again. Yeah, I'll quickly share my biggest loss to date, because it just came in Friday. I didn't trade Friday, but it's ticker I've been halted in
00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:33.849
Lawrence obioma: finally opened up. Oh, did it? Yeah.
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:39.940
Alexander Winkler: yeah. Ed, Tx opened up. I took a thousand dollar loss.
00:27:40.449 --> 00:27:54.649
Alexander Winkler: So not very nice down 78% on this position, but you know it is what it is. II can make more in a month. It it doesn't really bother me that much. It's a little frustrating cause. This was exactly one of those trades. It was like
00:27:54.839 --> 00:28:05.549
Alexander Winkler: I was done trading on the day. I was already kind of closing my applications, and I was like kind of looking for something to trade. I was a little bit aboard, and this was a ticker that's totally out of my wheelhouse, you know, as a
00:28:05.849 --> 00:28:10.489
Alexander Winkler: it was like a $68 stock at already 10 x. It's like on the multi-day
00:28:10.549 --> 00:28:40.299
Alexander Winkler: move, and it's a spac which means it's not even a real stock in that regard. So much more can happen in terms of th what goes on in the back end. So I. You know I'm just playing with fire, literally right after I enter it, it gets halted, and it's a halt. So you know Sec wants to investigate the company. It was halted for more than 30 days, and I don't have a great picture of it, so I'll show it on my chart, because it doesn't even load the 1 min data anymore. It for some reason loads the 5 min in the daily.
00:28:40.309 --> 00:28:41.230
Alexander Winkler: But
00:28:41.379 --> 00:28:54.148
Alexander Winkler: on top of all that kind of bad news. I also got an extra 38 reorganization fee because it's no longer listed on the Stock Exchange. So basically.
00:28:54.159 --> 00:29:15.298
Alexander Winkler: they just closed this back like that's all that happened. So how did you feel, though? How did they feel the order to give it back to you? So I don't even know. I just they closed it randomly. And there was, yeah, is a little little shady. So there is a press release here. That
00:29:15.299 --> 00:29:36.679
Alexander Winkler: it, says the edx at late Wednesday. It expects to redeem the class. A ordinary shares issue during its Ipo on Thursday, at 1034 a share. So basically, they just closed the company for the Ipo price, which was a great deal, because it was a, you know, $68, or something like that when it got halted, or 63 24, I guess.
00:29:36.739 --> 00:29:41.519
Alexander Winkler: Yeah. So I mean a big win there for some people.
00:29:41.579 --> 00:29:46.759
Alexander Winkler: so the blank checks firm said once the shares are redeemed.
00:29:46.849 --> 00:30:08.358
Alexander Winkler: I know this is a little small here. I can't make it bigger. They are deemed canceled and represent only the right to receive redemption payments. So that's why, basically, what I got. I had shares. I got a redemption payment, and I got a nice fee to accept the redemption payment. So he was like already 3 shares right there, almost 4 shares. So I mean 78% loss. Pretty nasty. But
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:15.219
Alexander Winkler: you know, I'll recover. So it's not the end of the world. But yeah, just be careful, guys, when you know you start trading tickers that
00:30:15.379 --> 00:30:19.949
Alexander Winkler: you know, like they've already 10 x like, what are you trying to get out of it, you know. And
00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:46.969
Alexander Winkler: it's it's there's more more downside risk than upside risk, you know, like today, we were trading what the heck was that verb kind of a funny ticker, and this taker was halting like crazy. But you know it's it's a $1 50 cents stock. When I was trading in this area. And like, you know, what's it gonna do? Halt down here? Probably not. It's probably not gonna hold all the way back down. But you have that upside potential without Major Downside potential, I mean, obviously could still go down 50. But
00:30:47.099 --> 00:31:06.409
Lawrence obioma: you're probably not gonna have an sec investigation into a company like stuff like that at this priced any. The upside potential is way, more especially when volume comes in. What we talked about last time where, if something is really cheap, there's there's it has more upside potential when volume comes in, because volume just needs to do a little bit to bring it up.
00:31:06.409 --> 00:31:29.369
Alexander Winkler: But you were trading, I think Edx was 63 bucks already 150 like I don't do. I don't know what I was thinking I was. You know, I didn't think it was. Gonna get sec investigated the second, I literally press the buy order. That's like I like. I bought it went down a little bit, and then I got halted, and I was like, Huh, it shouldn't have got halted.
00:31:29.379 --> 00:31:48.019
Alexander Winkler: And yeah, so I mean, that's like a black Swan event. Kind of super bad luck. It's never happened to me in my trading career, but you know, at the same time I kind of put myself in a position trading a ticker that had a high likelihood of something like that getting ha! Happening now. The chance of it literally happening during my trade
00:31:48.319 --> 00:32:08.719
Alexander Winkler: is is unlikely, but still it's a likely ticker to get and hold like that, and usually we'll see stuff like that happen even more closer to noon and stuff usually not right at the market open. So very unusual situation. But for me, I want to stick with stocks typically below $20. And yeah, this is good to remember why
00:32:08.719 --> 00:32:23.379
Lawrence obioma: I worry about this Black Swan events who's for us. And it's funny because we trade loss cap. So really, there's very, very low likelihood, but, like even Kobe asked me in the discord he said, like, how do you plan for Black Swan events? I said, III try my best to be safe, but
00:32:23.379 --> 00:32:40.648
Lawrence obioma: like I said, like if I had, because we have to take leverage to trade some of these large gaps like just in general, I need to take leverage to trade. These large gaps is not. It's not possible, for unless you have like, even even I know Mars, because I know some of the positions he takes, like he's always leveraged up. You're always leveraged up more because these things are expensive.
00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:44.678
Lawrence obioma: So when? If so, if for some reason, Apple
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:59.089
Lawrence obioma: holds down and I have a stop, loss or anything, with everything right, I have a stop loss, but let's say it halts down. It opens under my stop loss, and I have to just take it. Take trade. What if it holds down 50%? Well, 50% of a leverage position could wipe out. You know.
00:32:59.299 --> 00:33:06.129
Lawrence obioma: 60 of my account 70. So you you never you you got it. But I think that's a
00:33:06.730 --> 00:33:11.009
Lawrence obioma: you gotta plan for things like that and put a stop loss. But there's some
00:33:11.009 --> 00:33:23.769
Lawrence obioma: times we you have to be aware that you know you're always taking risks like we've got. We get so comfortable sometimes with the idea that we press buttons and release profit or loss, and it's manageable. And then we forget that. No, there is a chance
00:33:23.769 --> 00:33:47.569
Lawrence obioma: that a edx can happen like we never think that would could happen right there. And I worry about that. Some of these last caps, too. Because I, you know, with the banking crisis, where you see, like Fslr and some of these other stocks. But you know this is why this is another reason. Me and my brother, we we decided we are not making swing trade strategies, like, at least not without size right now.
00:33:47.569 --> 00:34:14.509
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, I don't care to make. II can struggle, figure out, because, you know, a lot of a lot of I'll go. Traders will make swing trade strategies. There are very few outgo traders who actually are solely intraday, at least from what I've seen on Youtube, a lot of them. Except some some of the great trading people, the average in training people, they do it in today. But like, though the people who make bigger strategies, they have to work over a long period of time they make for our bar strategies, and I'm like.
00:34:14.529 --> 00:34:30.739
Lawrence obioma: I don't know. I just can't trust these markets with my money right now, at least, with how much money we have right now, like maybe down the road, when we have a bigger account than I'd be like, Okay, who cares about this much money, but that's another that brings to another topic that I was thinking of. It's like, I'm I'm looking into new brokers.
00:34:30.750 --> 00:34:36.149
Lawrence obioma: So like I'm looking into brokers that just give enough.
00:34:36.489 --> 00:34:50.328
Lawrence obioma: enough was it margin that I don't have to put in more money, so I can just like cause we we actually did launch the 2,000 account thing that I told you guys so I had to do. I stayed up like literally 2 nights.
00:34:50.409 --> 00:34:54.809
Lawrence obioma: coding, though the whole structure of it managing multiple accounts per trade.
00:34:54.989 --> 00:35:05.108
Lawrence obioma: But what it does now is, it trades 2 accounts in my one account, and it manages, it keeps track of each one individually, so like
00:35:05.179 --> 00:35:14.908
Lawrence obioma: the they it like. If 2,000, if this one had to take a certain amount of shares, and this one had to take a number of shares. They will just be put together, and the risk would be
00:35:15.029 --> 00:35:20.928
Lawrence obioma: will be leveled up to what makes sense for both of them. They they all trade the same strategy. So it's not. It's not something new.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:27.349
Lawrence obioma: But but you know, I'm thinking, okay, once I have enough money, I'm just gonna get a new broker
00:35:27.460 --> 00:35:33.619
Lawrence obioma: cause leverage is more like, if I just need the leverage to trade these things. It's not like I I
00:35:33.629 --> 00:36:00.710
Lawrence obioma: II need, you know, to put all this money into one account. Are you? Are you trying to get another broker? Just so the downside of one account getting blown up is is gone. Same broker, or would that? No, no, no, because they're going to be trading the same strategies. So if yeah, there's no, it doesn't change anything. If I just give another account cause if if something goes wrong, if those blacks want events go wrong.
00:36:00.710 --> 00:36:11.168
Lawrence obioma: I don't want margin to completely end my profit of like. For example, if I have $10,000 in the in the other broker and I have
00:36:11.769 --> 00:36:13.920
Lawrence obioma: I have like 60 k. In one broker.
00:36:14.149 --> 00:36:29.429
Lawrence obioma: I can. I don't need to put 60 K. In this broker. I could just put 40 or 30, and keep, you know, 20 or 30 in my in my bank account, and the leverage will make up for me being able to take the trade, because I'm just putting in money right now, just so that I can take the trades. I'm not putting in money so that I can
00:36:29.449 --> 00:36:37.000
Lawrence obioma: make more money. I'm so the leverage that the brokers provide me give me the ability to take in a position.
00:36:37.029 --> 00:36:50.259
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, that's why I'm I'm just trying to make sure that can actually take the money out of the the market in general, because, though we have, like, we have, like point 3 exposure in our positions to the overall market over, you know, the 5 years
00:36:50.909 --> 00:36:55.969
Lawrence obioma: you know, 1 one day those point 3% could be the Ed. Tx.
00:36:56.309 --> 00:37:14.458
Alexander Winkler: there's always that chance. Right? That's that's it. Yeah. Sounds like something short. Trader would do, like, you know, making multiple accounts. Long biased traders usually don't have to worry about that too much. But I do both. Yeah, yeah, so it's different.
00:37:14.769 --> 00:37:30.548
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, you have to be smart. I'm I'm that's another thing. I was worried about really short like, luckily, these large gaps I'm gonna go up 100. We it'd be kind of ridiculous if they did. Yeah, you don't have to worry about that too much because of the flow. But yes, a every anything can happen. I've
00:37:30.579 --> 00:37:36.639
Lawrence obioma: I've seen. I've seen the worst I've gone. I've watched a lot of. I don't know if you guys watch a lot of like old trading documentaries.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:42.098
Lawrence obioma: and you see all of the crazy things that happened even before we had like such a sophisticated market.
00:37:42.170 --> 00:37:51.579
Lawrence obioma: I don't, for example, to make sure, but like things outside of that, even like like. Did you see the day? Where
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:54.359
Lawrence obioma: is it? Volkswagen or Porsche?
00:37:54.569 --> 00:38:07.358
Lawrence obioma: Push the stuff like that stuff went up. Yeah, like. And that's a lost cap. That was a lot, Cap. So you know, that could be me one day with with like my stop
00:38:07.369 --> 00:38:10.569
Lawrence obioma: like, it halts past my stop and then opens, you know.
00:38:10.759 --> 00:38:13.129
Daniel Camozzo: yeah, 2030% higher.
00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:21.109
Alexander Winkler: Yeah, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. You gotta have some sort of risk risk management series risk management, especially if you're a short trader, I think.
00:38:21.429 --> 00:38:24.299
Alexander Winkler: yeah, I don't know if I could sleep well at night. If I was a short trader
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:34.960
Lawrence obioma: I was. I found out about Ed Tx trade, cause. I think you said in the podcast I was like, because I was watching. I was looking on the on Twitter for all the people who had it.
00:38:35.299 --> 00:38:49.118
Lawrence obioma: And I was like, I'm seeing all these people like super panicking like like everything. And then II was like, Oh, I was like oh, at least no one I know. Oh, no! I immediately voice to you. And I was like.
00:38:49.309 --> 00:38:57.909
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, that's talking about halts. I just saw that verb might get halted here in a second. Anyone looking at that.
00:38:58.049 --> 00:38:59.099
Daniel Camozzo: I am
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:05.920
Lawrence obioma: all all the
00:39:05.989 --> 00:39:08.779
Lawrence obioma: buddy. They're late.
00:39:09.019 --> 00:39:17.009
Alexander Winkler: I had a feeling such trash, though it has been doing the same garbage all day long. Yeah.
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:20.239
Daniel Camozzo: just constant rejection. I hate this stock.
00:39:20.259 --> 00:39:26.019
Lawrence obioma: See, this is a this is one of those stock with the names thing that we were talking about. Yeah, exactly. Verb.
00:39:28.460 --> 00:39:29.960
Alexander Winkler: verb.
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:36.000
Daniel Camozzo: It tries to halt at 201 the next second it's at 174, halting down. It's a joke.
00:39:36.839 --> 00:39:39.288
Alexander Winkler: Yeah, that was a 1314%.
00:39:40.210 --> 00:39:55.528
Lawrence obioma: I was. I was looking at the way Danny trades, cause I kept re watching the last podcast that just that part where he was trading and cause I was trying to. I was trying to figure out how to code it. I was like, Okay, so how do I?
00:39:55.649 --> 00:40:06.148
Lawrence obioma: Right now? I'm I'm thinking through it. Don't get me wrong. I have a file literally, just like for that idea. That I'm I'm gonna be executing. And
00:40:06.230 --> 00:40:10.109
Lawrence obioma: at some point, maybe I'll let you know if I start to emulate
00:40:10.409 --> 00:40:20.128
Lawrence obioma: close to like a higher frequency train. The problem is honestly the broker that I have doesn't allow me to, you know, doesn't allow you to be too close like he doesn't allow you to put a take profit too close to your
00:40:20.279 --> 00:40:23.148
Lawrence obioma: your price entry. which is kind of shitty.
00:40:23.989 --> 00:40:24.909
Alexander Winkler: Oh, yeah.
00:40:25.750 --> 00:40:31.088
Alexander Winkler: that makes things a lot more difficult. Yeah, so we could what we could do. To kind of
00:40:31.569 --> 00:40:37.219
Alexander Winkler: for the for one of the last sections here is talk about, you know, the tickers we traded today. If anyone wants to review a little bit
00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:54.648
Alexander Winkler: and kind of how we're cause I'm I'm feeling like there's a little bit of back to school momentum going on where, you know, we had a lot of momentum today. It was just there's a lot of tickers flying a lot. I think I had like 7 that I made notes on which is unusually high. And then
00:40:54.659 --> 00:41:06.719
Alexander Winkler: the volume was definitely here. It was just, you know, we did get a lot of follow through, and we were halting in both directions like on verb. Anyone want to share anything? Or should I talk a little bit.
00:41:08.279 --> 00:41:13.149
Daniel Camozzo: I think they're mid trade right now. So
00:41:14.259 --> 00:41:39.078
Daniel Camozzo: I took a really big red day on Friday and my one goal today. My one thought was. Just have a green day, and I'm not even able to do that. I'm up 1,300 on Hst. Dt. I was up 2,900 on it and gave back half of that
00:41:39.529 --> 00:41:45.348
Daniel Camozzo: trying to position in on the pull back
00:41:45.379 --> 00:41:58.029
Daniel Camozzo: and it just had no continuation at all past the initial move. So I gave back half of what I have made there. I'm down 1,300 on verb
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:07.279
Daniel Camozzo: I took a loss on uptd A, which I traded on Friday, and it was also a mess on Friday.
00:42:07.429 --> 00:42:19.368
Daniel Camozzo: So just a lot of like low quality moves in the market. Still, there are things popping up and moving, having decent moves. But then they just like stop and don't continue at all.
00:42:19.569 --> 00:42:25.628
Daniel Camozzo: And then the other stuff. Yeah. And then the other stuff that
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:37.349
Daniel Camozzo: you think looks like it might pop up. It just totally rejects. So you're not really able to get the 2 steps forward on the ones that do have a big move, and then just stop.
00:42:37.699 --> 00:42:46.509
Daniel Camozzo: You get like 1, one and a half, maybe, and then on the other ones. It's like at least 1 one and a half or more to the down side. So
00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:56.818
Alexander Winkler: I'm just chopping around. I'm on a small red day right now. So what? What's your like? Emotions feel like right now? Coming from the the big red day to
00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:59.199
Lawrence obioma: to the
00:42:59.329 --> 00:43:13.109
Lawrence obioma: Because I saw I saw your chart. I was like, II mean for me, you know, I don't trust that you're gonna do any worse. So I was like, okay, it's just a a back slide, but I know I've I've noticed it from you from how
00:43:13.279 --> 00:43:41.409
Lawrence obioma: A lot of consistent traders are literally one or 2 red days in a month make you guys so sad like you guys get like you guys feel like, Oh, my God! August was a total mess for me. I had like 10 red days in August, 9 or 10, which is way too much. I still finished the month at like 11500 or something. The end of the month was Thursday, the 30 first, and then
00:43:42.009 --> 00:43:59.188
Daniel Camozzo: so last week I had a $1,300 red day on Monday. I don't remember exactly how the days went Tuesday through Thursday, but I made 11.5,000 Tuesday through Thursday, and then I had an 11,000 red day on Friday, which is the biggest red day I've had in over a year.
00:43:59.859 --> 00:44:01.588
Daniel Camozzo: It's 9,000.
00:44:01.949 --> 00:44:04.349
Daniel Camozzo: What's that? That was 9,000.
00:44:04.829 --> 00:44:14.509
Daniel Camozzo: Oh, it was. You know how it goes. It was I took one more trade.
00:44:14.829 --> 00:44:21.449
Lawrence obioma: and it was actually a good trade. It was on ad Tx. As it was squeezing up. I was up like $2 a share on it, and then it
00:44:21.549 --> 00:44:32.768
Daniel Camozzo: it flushed. $8. So I took a loss on that, too. even even on a good position. it was just not the right data trade at all. Yeah.
00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:53.049
Daniel Camozzo: So like, luckily, at least, I had made 11.5,000 just a couple of days before, so it was nearly a flat week for me. So like I'm not all that been out of shape about it. It's way bigger of a loss than I would have wanted to have taken.
00:44:53.230 --> 00:44:58.958
Daniel Camozzo: but I know at the same time I've been up in share size. I've been up in risk.
00:44:58.969 --> 00:45:14.128
Daniel Camozzo: the hardest part for me is just being very objective and disciplined on when to do that cause I start. I had already been kind of like triggered and frustrated from the month, just taking a lot of red trades and
00:45:14.329 --> 00:45:26.799
Lawrence obioma: at a certain point you just start to go like, what does another $1,000 matter? I mean, I I've been. We haven't, really. II think we made maybe $800
00:45:26.989 --> 00:45:32.828
Lawrence obioma: in August like it was very low, comparative, especially now, since I have more strategies.
00:45:33.029 --> 00:45:50.889
Lawrence obioma: And but I you know I'm I don't worry. Even if I had a red month. I'm not really too worried about that. I think differently. But II completely understand. Like, if you're day to day, especially grinding and sizing up like you are right now. Can be very debilitating, especially to give back like
00:45:50.969 --> 00:45:52.940
Lawrence obioma: a huge 11,000
00:45:53.079 --> 00:46:00.619
Lawrence obioma: 2 days. But, Toby, how's like your progression. What does it look like this in this August? Was it
00:46:00.699 --> 00:46:07.318
Toby Dawson: pretty pretty good? It was mostly green, so I did. I did well.
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:09.028
Toby Dawson: And then
00:46:09.069 --> 00:46:21.059
Toby Dawson: Today I got myself into trouble real early on Duac, and took a $800 loss on it immediately, and then had a couple of other small losses. So I was at 1 point about
00:46:21.690 --> 00:46:30.019
Toby Dawson: 1,400 bucks down. But I made. I'm up 1,300 on Hsd, and
00:46:30.369 --> 00:46:33.128
Toby Dawson: you know, probably up like a hundred bucks right now. So
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:50.588
Toby Dawson: nice was that maybe your worst one ever
00:46:51.859 --> 00:46:56.199
Alexander Winkler: it was pretty nasty. Yeah, it was. It was bad.
00:46:56.279 --> 00:47:17.079
Alexander Winkler: Do you have the screenshot?
00:47:17.710 --> 00:47:21.839
Alexander Winkler: Something? Toby? Right?
00:47:21.899 --> 00:47:28.539
Toby Dawson: 200, something. Yeah, 200. Something. Okay. Why do I have 400? Probably because we were just talking about 400 earlier. But
00:47:29.509 --> 00:47:34.848
Alexander Winkler: yeah, this was insane. So you went down to past 4,000, and then you somehow
00:47:35.109 --> 00:47:42.759
Alexander Winkler: got out of $180 profit
00:47:43.809 --> 00:47:45.739
Toby Dawson: if I could just turn those into like
00:47:45.960 --> 00:48:06.629
Lawrence obioma: the way your training is causing you to make this, though, like the reason why you came recover is because of how you're trading like, I feel like the like the argument of like, if I could only make this, if I'm up there, it's not gonna work because you do this when you're down here. That's true. You do. That's very true, like
00:48:06.799 --> 00:48:13.059
Alexander Winkler: So Toby goes, gets these big sizes together once he's red, and somehow it works
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:18.278
Lawrence obioma: that's crazy, though. See, my Max loss would have stopped me out right here.
00:48:18.309 --> 00:48:23.658
Alexander Winkler: But you know, technically I would have left a thousand dollars on the table then, but
00:48:24.269 --> 00:48:42.458
Alexander Winkler: I don't. I don't know if if mentally, I would want to go through all of this first, II would probably pay $1,000 not to experience that. But that's something that every trader is gonna have to figure out on their own. And I'm like. I'm pretty sure, from all my years of experience at this point, that
00:48:43.230 --> 00:48:51.079
Alexander Winkler: I don't know. Like sometimes for me, I would just rather walk away. Otherwise I'm only going to be seeing red, and that might just be too slippery.
00:48:51.250 --> 00:48:57.719
Lawrence obioma: I don't know if he's even seeing red for me, because back then it was more. II got like mentally like I started to get a headache if I
00:48:57.879 --> 00:49:00.418
Lawrence obioma: if I sat here like past 12.
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:08.108
Lawrence obioma: So that's why I said, that's why I brought up the crispy trade, guy, because I'm like he's she trades those 400 to 500 trades.
00:49:08.129 --> 00:49:25.788
Alexander Winkler: I could maybe consider doing that again. But, dude, I'm 30 now. I'm not trying to sit around my computer all day like I'm I'm doing like 7 to 11, Max. That's a long trading day for me.
00:49:25.899 --> 00:49:36.648
Lawrence obioma: Usually I'll trade like 2 h like 8
00:49:36.649 --> 00:49:58.688
Alexander Winkler: 8 ish, maybe 8, 30, right? But now, if like, if I have a great trading session from like 7 to 7 45. I'll go ahead and call it, because what's happened to me probably more than like 50 times is like where I'll be up one or 2,000 at like 7 30 am. And then II spend the next 2 and a half hours going to Max loss or something.
00:49:58.699 --> 00:50:06.549
Alexander Winkler: and there's something like that eats at your soul. When that happens that I'm just like I just can't do that.
00:50:06.639 --> 00:50:25.018
Alexander Winkler: It like it makes you so upset as a human like. I would rather just take my, you know, whatever profit enjoy the rest of the day. Go to the park workout, go surfing like there's so much to do in your life. And then like, when you spend more time working and like losing money.
00:50:25.449 --> 00:50:51.259
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, so it's I, you know, it's funny, and like when when my trades are doing well, like one when we up like $500 on the day, and then I see another G, another trade get taken and build. I'm like, just stop right there. I'm like, just take take the 501 time I the the one time I wasn't. I kept saying that that was like our biggest day was like 800 $900 for the date. And I was just like.
00:50:51.259 --> 00:51:10.618
Lawrence obioma: you know what I was just. I was just so tough cause with with trading. You're either giving back profits or you're leaving profits on the table, and you you have to figure out the ratio that works best for you. Everyone's gonna be different. There's some people are fine trading all day long, and if this is the only thing you're doing, and you want to become the best at it. That's probably the way to go
00:51:10.649 --> 00:51:11.980
Alexander Winkler: to some extent
00:51:12.099 --> 00:51:28.348
Alexander Winkler: to some extent, and and like for me, I just have too many other projects. I start getting distracted after like 2 and a half hours. I'm like, Oh, I have to work on this. I'm working on that. I gotta slack over here. I gotta trello board over here, you know, I'm just like my mind's everywhere. And then once I once I feel my mind drifting.
00:51:28.349 --> 00:51:46.989
Alexander Winkler: I start trading exponentially worse. So I've noticed I just need to cut it off like I love trading. I want to get better at this. I want to do it for a long time, but in order to do it for a long time I can't do it very long every day. That's just the realization I've come to for myself, I guess, to finish it up because we talked about like the account size thing.
00:51:47.049 --> 00:51:56.958
Lawrence obioma: you know, that's to some extent like, that's why I'm still like trying to to increase my account. Size is also because, like.
00:51:57.019 --> 00:52:17.678
Lawrence obioma: we're taking, really, we're taking quality trades now. And we're but is very few. And in between, like today, we didn't have any trade which is so surprising. Like with all the strategies we had. I think this is the one day I've and like this is our probably our first day in like months that I haven't had a trade go, and we still have. We still have like another 2 h, but II doubt it would be. The market seems very like lowly right now.
00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:30.558
Lawrence obioma: At least the over the yeah. I don't know about you guys, but you know the the lost caps. But you know, that's why I'm I'm thinking of sizing up and increasing the account and doing everything because I'm just like, you know what it's time to finally just take the risk.
00:52:30.579 --> 00:52:37.489
Lawrence obioma: Cause. I don't really have any. I I'm at the point right now where I don't really have any fear of like
00:52:37.659 --> 00:53:03.839
Lawrence obioma: things going too wrong, especially because we are maintaining, and if they were going to go wrong, you know, out I'm fine with them, going wrong instead, just figuring it out. And, as it happens, because sometimes I think when I when I was training discretionarily, when I when it was hard for me to get to that 200 risk portrayed because I was so scared of like. What if I don't perform the same way? And I remember when I started getting to that hundredf a trade I was starting to be like
00:53:04.049 --> 00:53:13.178
Lawrence obioma: I. This is the exact same thing I was doing before. I could have just done this a while ago, and if you look at Key. Do you guys know key info?
00:53:13.529 --> 00:53:15.659
Daniel Camozzo: Okay. Info painful.
00:53:15.839 --> 00:53:17.958
Lawrence obioma: King info. KIN.
00:53:18.259 --> 00:53:23.199
Lawrence obioma: Kimfo Kimfo, KINF. OI think that's it. But that's a
00:53:23.449 --> 00:53:27.009
Lawrence obioma: place where you can see like verified profits.
00:53:27.629 --> 00:53:31.179
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I've seen this before. I think Colby shared it with me.
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:47.228
Lawrence obioma: Yeah. But like, if you see the leaderboard right now, you see a guy who's going really mad like doing really well. But his equity chart is something crazy. But he's he's up 6 million, and it's like the risk that he's taking. II just compare him to everyone else, and I'm like
00:53:47.329 --> 00:54:07.420
Lawrence obioma: he's he might not have the cleanest chart, but he's profitable over a long time, and he is making more money than everyone. It's all just about rate, how much risk and feel comfortable about taking. But and after you get to a certain point you can be more logical. And just say, let me take my money and go, and I think like that's why I'm trying to be in. My mindset is like, you know, what I could probably turn to $2,000 to
00:54:07.589 --> 00:54:34.398
Lawrence obioma: to, you know, 20 k. In like 3 to 4 months. If I risk high enough on that $2,000. I've already done all the simulation. Yeah. So so it's possible. It's very possible with even, you know, that example I showed you guys was 6% risk. And I tried it with 10%. It go. It went up to 50 k. Like that. 2 K. If I traded on my account since the beginning of the year with 10 risk. It would have been a 50 K.
00:54:34.500 --> 00:54:38.589
Lawrence obioma: And it just makes me feel like, well, what's the point of me.
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:45.109
Lawrence obioma: you know, not taking that risk if it's $2,000. So I think figuring out like, when you have to start doing that is.
00:54:45.159 --> 00:55:09.159
Alexander Winkler: it's pretty critical as a trader. So II think so, too. I've I've actually had that same realization where I'll have like a $200 day or 200 red day, and then I'll think to myself, this is not worth it like this is not worth my time financially to be doing this. So like, if I'm going to keep trading. I have to size up. Otherwise there's an opportunity cost here that is very, very negative for me to keep trading.
00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:37.028
Alexander Winkler: So like today, I was using fairly big size. I mean, I'm walking away today at 3 40 for profit. It's not like a big green day, but like, if I didn't have so many losers, and the market was a little bit less choppy. And I had, like just literally one or 2 trades like worked out back to back. It was so hard like what Daniel was saying, like 2 steps, 2 steps backwards, constantly, or just like you never have that opportunity to like. Get that second win. It just doesn't exist right? So frustrating. And that's usually how you have a big green day.
00:55:37.039 --> 00:56:05.199
Alexander Winkler: So I guess I what was my point just now. I just got to. Yeah, yeah, the opportunity cost of sizing is is like, II just had to start using bigger size, like, I want my average, maybe to be around 10,000. So like my starter size needs to be like 5,000 for an okay trade. If it's a good trade. I should already be a 10,000. If it's like a great or like an A plus perfect setup I should be using using like 20 K right away, because
00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:14.359
Alexander Winkler: otherwise it's like, what am I doing? You know I'm I'm kind of wasting my time. I could maybe have a one K. Green day, 2 K. Green day. But it's still like at that point where
00:56:14.359 --> 00:56:36.168
Lawrence obioma: it like once you average out the red days and everything, it probably still won't be worth it. You know I could get a job and do make more money, you know, if I'm trading. That's like, if you simulate that, if you simulate that, and see what like. I could take your equity chart to just take the changes in your equity and put up a hundred like different position sizes, and show you what that would look like, and you'd be like.
00:56:36.439 --> 00:56:41.109
Lawrence obioma: wow! I could have just been doing that and not having to. you know, just
00:56:41.170 --> 00:57:03.050
Lawrence obioma: correct cause. Then every every your your slow days are going to be amazing. You'll comparative to your net worth and it sometimes, you know. Luckily, you guys are trading small caps. So you guys, you know, leverage isn't something that you have to deal with. That for me right now, the the biggest issue is literally just leverage. II cannot.
00:57:03.059 --> 00:57:14.028
Lawrence obioma: especially with all these strategies. Some of them are taking $70,000 positions. They emptying out my account in like 2 positions. I'm like, so. But yeah, you guys are lucky to and to, you know.
00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:15.708
Lawrence obioma: only have to deal with.
00:57:15.789 --> 00:57:31.010
Lawrence obioma: You know this, the the cheaper stocks. And then, you know, maybe an Ed. Tx once every I don't know. II don't know if there's been. I've actually heard of an Ebtx the last 3 years. I don't think it's a very common occurrence, like
00:57:31.250 --> 00:57:43.649
Alexander Winkler: I don't know. Like most of the time, I think you'll get stuck, maybe in a halt down and lose 1020, Max, II and that rarely happens. That's like that's only happened to me, I think maybe twice.
00:57:43.699 --> 00:57:52.229
Alexander Winkler: And that's like, if I'm aggressively trading holes. Which there was a time I was II do it less now, and it's never happened to me, so II don't know
00:57:52.569 --> 00:58:03.868
Alexander Winkler: any any other thoughts, though going forward here? You know, looking at the spy, thinking about the small caps, thinking large caps, indexes like, what are what are your thoughts? Game plans going forward here? Now that we're back to school.
00:58:05.229 --> 00:58:27.149
Daniel Camozzo: I'm hoping that we start to get some moves picking up, coming into the fall a little bit more consistency, just like once every now and then. It would be nice if we get that second move on anything. Because, like, we're, we're either getting something that just goes completely straight up, and there's no way to trade it, or just like nothing else. So pop and drop.
00:58:27.449 --> 00:58:30.698
Daniel Camozzo: yeah, I mean for me, there's things I'm moving, but
00:58:31.309 --> 00:58:48.538
Lawrence obioma: not not always being in a trade as an issue. The market moves. I need to figure out how to take advantage of it. So my focus is just executing on all these strategies. You know I have a I have a I recently I said, I said, Isn't this go to Coby? I have a bunch of new techniques that I learned
00:58:48.619 --> 00:58:53.590
Lawrence obioma: that are going to improve my strategies and make it easier for me to make new strategies so
00:58:53.619 --> 00:58:55.539
Lawrence obioma: hopefully, next 2 to 3,
00:58:55.760 --> 00:59:09.729
Lawrence obioma: next 2 months. Actually, II hope to add, like 5 new strategies, make it like 15, and each of my strategies trade at least 3 stocks. So you know, we're we're talking right now. We're streaming about 25 stocks by the end of this year we should be streaming at least like
00:59:09.869 --> 00:59:11.500
Lawrence obioma: 30 to 35.
00:59:11.639 --> 00:59:19.279
Lawrence obioma: That's gonna be fun adventure to follow. Yeah, data. Our data is, get I'm I'm I'm having issues with the server people.
00:59:19.470 --> 00:59:30.670
Lawrence obioma: and I might have to get in use of a probably next year if I open up a new account. But I'm also thinking a little bit of like scaling into like an actual business. What does that look like?
00:59:30.930 --> 00:59:43.649
Lawrence obioma: That's annoying, though, you know, obviously. But but it's a good way to make a lot of money, because I also do know some people who have a lot of money just sitting in their bank accounts
00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:54.849
Alexander Winkler: me, dropping in occasionally. So I might do a little bit of that. But yeah, I mean, yeah, what about you, Toby.
00:59:56.279 --> 01:00:00.858
Toby Dawson: Yeah. Just so, hoping for some more consistency. I'm kind of
01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:15.838
Toby Dawson: considering not trading so much pre-market right now, because there just hasn't been anything going on. It just feels like I'm wasting 2 h every time.
01:00:16.420 --> 01:00:19.458
Toby Dawson: It's 6 pm. Here.
01:00:20.510 --> 01:00:21.639
Lawrence obioma: Okay.
01:00:21.769 --> 01:00:28.829
Toby Dawson: so I'd rather just kind of save the mental capital and just wait for the market open where there's a little bit more volatility and
01:00:29.059 --> 01:00:33.498
Lawrence obioma: definitely more volume. So it's easier to get out of positions.
01:00:33.930 --> 01:00:42.470
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, they said, we have to. We have to quiz Co. Toby on how it's it is over there. You'll where exactly are you again?
01:00:42.670 --> 01:01:05.750
Lawrence obioma: Yeah, Thailand. Okay, I was. I was, gonna guess Thailand. Yeah, I need to know what's happening in Thailand. I used to have some Thai friends. I lived in Malaysia like 13 years. So I know I know a little bit Chinese, you know. Boy actually speaks some mandate. Mike, my canton is horrible. And I also don't speak. I don't speak because my intonation is horrible, but I can understand a good bit, because all my friends with Chinese
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:11.338
Lawrence obioma: I've been. I've been studying Ty for a little over a year now, so you speak, Thai.
01:01:11.449 --> 01:01:12.909
Toby Dawson: I'm trying to.
01:01:13.050 --> 01:01:16.078
Toby Dawson: I'm learning how to read, and right right now
01:01:16.460 --> 01:01:19.378
Lawrence obioma: nice. And you. You said you live in Chinatown a little bit too. Right?
01:01:19.659 --> 01:01:26.498
Toby Dawson: Yeah. I work for Chi. I worked for the Chinese sport winter Olympic sport for 4 years.
01:01:27.079 --> 01:01:34.278
Lawrence obioma: Okay, that's great. I'll I'll we'll do the quizzing next time, so I can learn more about you like what you do over there.
01:01:34.680 --> 01:01:45.048
Alexander Winkler: Nice? Good. Yeah, everyone drop your questions. We'll get our questions ready for each other. So we quiz each other. And yeah, we'll answer more questions next spot guys, thanks everyone for dropping in.
01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:47.630
Lawrence obioma: Yes, bye, everyone.